Kraus-Anderson, HQ Apartments, Finnegans "Brewtel" - 9th St S/5th Ave S

[John]

More great news for our downtown! And they will be expanding their presence and adding more jobs. Yes!

[Silophant]

The building looks good, but I hope the CPED staff gives them a lot of pushback regarding their giant-ass parking lot.

[Nick]

There are some hypotheticals for the rest of the block in the packet for the CPC Committee of the Whole meeting next week:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 129959.pdf

Eleven stories of residential (100 units) and seven stories of offices (100,000 sq ft).

Also, they should probably make them move the main entrance of the KA building to the corner, but the extra fifty feet from the parking lot may be a dealbreaker.

[mattaudio]

I submitted a giant-ass comment to the planner and a few CMs last time this came about. That was a blast. This looks a little better, but I still contend that a temporary parking lot should be oiled gravel or something.

[John]

I've watched development in this town a long time, and the second or third phase in submitted plans doesn't happen very often. But I like what they are presenting and maybe here we'll see something further (if the economy stays strong) and DTE continues to grow.

[Nathan]

those last renderings are real nice, they put a lot of money into that

[Wedgeguy]

So they are going to tear down their old headquarter?

[Nathan]

So they are going to tear down their old headquarter?

as soon as they have completed their new one

[seanrichardryan]

NOw that's Minnesota Modern.

[Wedgeguy]

So they are going to tear down their old headquarter?

as soon as they have completed their new one

Will be glad to see the old one go. Looks very out of place along that stretch of road. Almost suburban industrial park homage.

[twincitizen]

those last renderings are real nice, they put a lot of money into that

Just because this is the internet, I assumed sarcasm. But wow, you're right, those are pretty high quality renderings for something that is completely hypothetical. They're really trying to sell it to the city that the future phases will happen, and that they don't just want surface parking forever.

To matt's comment proposing that the parking be oiled gravel instead of fully paved, I doubt that city ordinances would allow it. Absolutely, it's pretty awful environmentally to build out an asphalt parking lot just to tear it up X years later. With this particular location, I'd hope X < 10, but you never know with these things...it could be 20+. I don't know if the city could legally attach conditions to the parking variance or not. I'm thinking something like: if a development plan for phase two has not been submitted to the city by 2020, Kraus-Anderson must demolish X number of surface parking spaces and replace with landscaping, etc.

[mattaudio]

I'm game with that. I mean honestly I do not expect to see an oiled gravel parking lot in Downtown Minneapolis, but I just want to point out how ridiculous the concept of "temporary parking" has been recently and over the last few decades.

[David Greene]

I don't know if the city could legally attach conditions to the parking variance or not. I'm thinking something like: if a development plan for phase two has not been submitted to the city by 2020, Kraus-Anderson must demolish X number of surface parking spaces and replace with landscaping, etc.

Something very much like that had been proposed for the lot French Meadow wanted to convert to temporary parking until "later development." So it's apparently possible.

[twincitizen]

(Very) technically a little different. French Meadow's case was a standalone surface parking lot (across the street) and the application was for an interim use permit, which by its very nature expires on a set date, typically 3-5 years out. For K-A, they are applying for a variance to exceed the parking maximum, but it is all on the same property. Depending on the legalese (and desire by the city), there may not be the same ability to require a landowner to physically tear up a parking lot, as you can do with an expiring interim use permit. Variances typically do not expire, and I'm not sure if you could legally bend city code to make it so. Either way, I still think staff/council should have the city attorney look into the possibility.

[nickmgray]

I think it's funny how many of us think Kraus-Anderson would just put out a proposal to build new phases jut so they can build a new HQ. The company is in the business of making money and since they are in the building business, I'm pretty sure they have a vested interest in making phase 2 happen if the proper demand is there.

Who knows, phase 2 might be even bigger than what they are showing if the current housing market continues in the same trajectory.

[mattaudio]

Or they are interested in providing "free parking" to their employees, and paying for a rendering of a future hypothetical tower on their parking lot is a great way to counteract the concerns with the previous proposal of a massive rebuilt surface lot downtown. I'm hopeful that's not the case, but history has given us a reason to be cynical just a little bit.

[John]

Or they are interested in providing "free parking" to their employees, and paying for a rendering of a future hypothetical tower on their parking lot is a great way to counteract the concerns with the previous proposal of a massive rebuilt surface lot downtown. I'm hopeful that's not the case, but history has given us a reason to be cynical just a little bit.

I think development of this block depends on market conditions. It certainly is an area that has lots of potential to grow given its proximity to all the new DTE projects going up. This site has become valuable real estate. However, the window of opportunity to build phase two and phase three is limited in time, so they better hurry up if they are truly serious! Right now we're in good times, but the economy is cyclical . We will have another recession/slowdown, and if nothing is built it will take many years if not decades for something to happen here.

[HiawathaGuy]

However, the window of opportunity to build phase two and phase three is limited in time, so they better hurry up if they are truly serious! Right now we're in good times, but the economy is cyclical . We will have another recession/slowdown, and if nothing is built it will take many years if not decades for something to happen here.

We are still crawling our way out of the last recession. Of course our economy is cyclical, but we literally went over 20 years (80s to the 2000s) with relatively strong growth nationally and locally. I would imagine that barring any unforeseen world crisis/events/wars, Minneapolis & Minnesota are well-positioned to continue to see strong growth, especially in the urban core. I'm far more optimistic about the KA parking turning into housing now than at any point over the past 10-15 years.

[mattaudio]

And isn't the nature of downtown development (much more residential focus) a complete shift from how downtown was viewed during the second half of the 20th Century? A smaller percentage of our downtown building is dependent on spec office viability or large office tenant wins.

[Wedgeguy]

One has to remember that the free parking still get taxed. While it is not taxed as high as land with a building. I do believe that MPLS has started to tax parking lots accordingly to help spur development. Also, for the size of the K-A HQ, that amount of parking will only be a drop in the bucket for what will be needed when it is full of employees. Also K-A is a builder. They can work on building the projects and keep their crews busy and either take in the money or sell the future development for a tidy profit. Keeping so called free parking is not how a builder makes money!