The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

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nate
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby nate » February 1st, 2015, 9:36 am

UPDC Land Use Committee got an update from Ryan Companies this week. They're in very early talks with businesses on the empty lot at the SE corner of Marshall and Snelling, where the gas station/coffee shop was recently demolished. Right now the best bite they've gotten is...Starbucks. Two very tentative ideas were floated to us, one of which put the new one-story structure on the corner furthest from both streets with a sea of parking in between. That idea did not go over well. The other is on the corner, but is still one-story with the bare minimum lot coverage, a sea of parking, and a drivethru. Better received, but only barely. Committee members and residents were almost universally unhappy with the lack of a second story (or better), the size of the parking lot, and the idea of another Starbucks two blocks away at Selby that wouldn't necessarily close.
Did they say what cleanup costs are associated with that site?
It is a strange little piece of land - hemmed in by the railroad and Snelling and Marshall - both very unpleasant streets at that point. A one story commercial building that has sidewalk frontage might not be all bad.

seanrichardryan
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby seanrichardryan » February 1st, 2015, 10:01 am

No mention of costs. It was just an information item to get feedback with some rough layouts.
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Snelbian
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby Snelbian » February 1st, 2015, 11:09 am

UPDC Land Use Committee got an update from Ryan Companies this week. They're in very early talks with businesses on the empty lot at the SE corner of Marshall and Snelling, where the gas station/coffee shop was recently demolished. Right now the best bite they've gotten is...Starbucks. Two very tentative ideas were floated to us, one of which put the new one-story structure on the corner furthest from both streets with a sea of parking in between. That idea did not go over well. The other is on the corner, but is still one-story with the bare minimum lot coverage, a sea of parking, and a drivethru. Better received, but only barely. Committee members and residents were almost universally unhappy with the lack of a second story (or better), the size of the parking lot, and the idea of another Starbucks two blocks away at Selby that wouldn't necessarily close.
Did they say what cleanup costs are associated with that site?
It is a strange little piece of land - hemmed in by the railroad and Snelling and Marshall - both very unpleasant streets at that point. A one story commercial building that has sidewalk frontage might not be all bad.
The Marshall bike lane finally goes past Snelling now, there's talk of a route along Ayd Mill, density is increasing both south (Vintage) and north (bus barn) of that point, and TN2 is really meant to be denser than a tiny one-story room in a parking lot. It's the wrong development. If we don't improve the area, it'll never not be a couple of unpleasant streets.

nate
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby nate » February 1st, 2015, 1:16 pm

All are good points; if the neighborhood can squeeze additional floors and a larger footprint out of the developer then it will be a good thing.

aeisenberg
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby aeisenberg » April 9th, 2015, 4:27 pm

Image
Image
Aaron Eisenberg / Realtor, Keller Williams Integrity
612.568.5828 / [email protected] / 1350 Lagoon Ave #900
http://www.agentaaron.com

Snelbian
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby Snelbian » May 4th, 2015, 9:41 am

Ryan Companies will be coming to the Union Park District Council soon for support in gaining two variances (drive-thru and FAR) for a tiny one-story Starbuck's on the empty lot at the southeast corner of Marshall and Snelling. I would be more incensed and concerned except I'm fairly confident that it has no chance whatsoever of going through. At least at the District Council level the universal reaction has been negative. https://www.facebook.com/TheVillagerMN/ ... 13/?type=1

seanrichardryan
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby seanrichardryan » May 4th, 2015, 12:42 pm

We told them last month it was crap. Tony said he'd they'd still be seeking approvals. Why oh why this site wasn't better planned/ integrated when the whole block was under construction...
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unk
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby unk » May 4th, 2015, 7:57 pm

I live in the area too and I really don't understand the negative reaction. What exactly are you expecting on this site that's so much better than the proposal? And how does it impact you so much that you think your opinion really matters wrt to to its development. Will you miss the view of the tracks? Hoping for a nice four square with a rain garden or a microbrewery with rooftop dining? How about relocating Dorothy Day there?

Sheesh.

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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby Snelbian » May 4th, 2015, 10:31 pm

Or - and this might be crazy - something that meets the basic floor area ratio requirement in the zoning. Snelling is a transit corridor, Marshall is a bike corridor. I'm not expecting a modern art museum here. But I am expecting something better than a fast food hut surrounded by asphalt. As to how it impacts me - it's three blocks from my house. Why does my opinion really matter? I live here, I'm a member of the Land Use Committee, and I've been involved in three working groups and task forces involving the stretch of Snelling from Selby to University in the last two years. I've invested my time and effort into improving the neighborhood. And I'll continue to do so next month when I vote no on the variances. If it concerns you that we aren't thrilled to allow the first redevelopment opportunity to come along a free ride through multiple zoning violations, perhaps you'd like to attend three meetings of the UPDC LUC and vote yourself.

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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby FISHMANPET » May 4th, 2015, 11:06 pm

Well if you're talking about the drive through coffee shop, it's a heavily auto oriented use that's not really compatible with an urban neighborhood, and is likely to cause actual traffic problems. So it does effect residents quite a bit in fact.

Snelbian
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby Snelbian » May 4th, 2015, 11:11 pm

It's worth noting that since the tracks at Snelling are on a bridge and then continue on a ridge towards Ayd Mill, nothing as small as the proposed Starbucks would ever block out a view of them from any angle. So quite the contrary unk, I'd like to see something that blocks out my view of the tracks. I will not miss it.

mattaudio
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby mattaudio » May 5th, 2015, 11:51 am

If anyone thinks this site configuration would not cause significant traffic problems including conflicts with bicyclists and walkers and interference with future A-Line BRT operations, I have a Caribou Coffee on Cedar Avenue to show you any morning.

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MN Fats
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby MN Fats » May 5th, 2015, 2:07 pm

Honest question then, what type of development would you like to go in there?

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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby mattaudio » May 5th, 2015, 2:13 pm

One that doesn't require variances.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby FISHMANPET » May 5th, 2015, 2:19 pm

One that doesn't require variances.
That's slippery slope language.

Anyway I'd say at the very least something without a drive through, or really anything with super strong peak traffic generation (so a coffee shop without the drive through but parking would still probably be bad, a neighborhood coffee shop with little parking would probably be acceptable.

twincitizen
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby twincitizen » May 5th, 2015, 2:19 pm

Careful there, Matt...that's exactly what the opposition says about everything we like.

In general it's just embarrassing that they just built an enormous mixed-use building and couldn't integrate a Starbucks into it. Their lack of foresight should not be rewarded. And yes, in general there should not be a drive-through anything in this location.

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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby mattaudio » May 5th, 2015, 2:25 pm

I was just being snotty.

Snelbian
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby Snelbian » May 5th, 2015, 2:50 pm

I'm not a fan of drive-thrus, especially in an urban context like this. But I could accept a lane or two if the rest of the development at least met the minimum FAR and reduced the curb cuts to 1 (or, better yet, none). I've spoken with reps from Ryan, and I know that they view the lot size, elevation at the south end, and proximity of the rail bridge as hindrances to development here, but at the same time to my mind that just means they need to think more creatively about what to do here. Ryan owns the land. They want to make a profit on it. The need is on their end to present the neighborhood and city with something that doesn't suck. We can wait.

unk
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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby unk » May 5th, 2015, 6:36 pm

Thanks for the replies and apologies for the earlier trolling. I guess I'll just agree to disagree. I think the perfect is the enemy of the good here. You might be willing to wait, but I can't stand that cement lot and I don't think we're going to get any better economically viable proposals in the near term.

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Re: The Vintage (Selby and Snelling)

Postby twincitizen » May 5th, 2015, 9:19 pm

Why does it need to be in the near term? I'd say at the very least wait until the apartment building leases up and Whole Foods is open, injecting new residents and new energy to the whole area. It would be foolish to rush and approve the very first thing proposed on that site. Are there constraints? Sure. But that still doesn't excuse what they've put forward here.


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