RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[Nathan]

I feel like the parking podium on mortensons is the worst street level presentation of the remaining 3. I personally think the doran project meets the ground the best and has a very rotterdam meets art deco meets the lipstick building kind vibe. Circular buildings are always pretty dynamic and i think it compliments the style of our skyline well. UP is good too I just don't like how the podium is organized, just kind of clunky.

[Aville_37]

I have to read the articles in more detail about the city's decision, but my automatic response is that the these local, established developers have the city officials wrapped around their fingers and the city isn't willing to take a chance on someone new. Look at the boondagle with the parking ramp in downtown east - they gave the rights to Ryan and they basically fell through with the proposal the city had accepted and gave them the go ahead with.

Also - why didn't the city speak to Duval about modifying the design, etc.????

Right now my hope is on UP, with a greater hope that Duval builds something just as daring at another downtown location that will add some excitement to the city.

[mamundsen]

Reading the article about the rejection (or even other's comments about their changed reaction after reading the article) sheds a lot of light on why Duval's plan is not moving forward. I feel like it should be required reading if you're going to comment on this thread.

[uptowncarag]

There is no reason to read it. The fact is we think small and none of these are plans are iconic. It is going to be another Block E part 2. I thought Minneapolis wanted to compete with its peer cities. I was wrong.

[Silophant]

It's peer towns, amirite?

[Nick]

As a general note re: the requirement that "all buildings on the block be at least 20 stories," I sort of got the impression at the RFP meeting that the presenter may have misspoke. Someone asked if all the buildings had to be at least 20 stories and he said yes, but judging from the tone of both people I think that was maybe about the idea that someone might build a 20 story building and then a standalone drive through Arby's next to it. It since made its way into the written materials but that doesn't quite make sense--how do you count the parking podium? Where does the line between buildings get drawn? Are the Fifth Street Towers and US Bank plaza two separate buildings or one complex? The site isn't very big.

[Silophant]

I was kinda wondering about that. People were ripping on UP and Doran after the first renderings for having the noncompliant short buildings, but that side view of the Duval atrium really makes his project look like two separate buildings with a glass canopy between them. Like you said, where's the line?

[bapster2006]

I think as long as the proposals follow the spirit of the rule they are OK. So a podium or attached building is fine as long as the icon is still there. I hope Duval can get another parcel under his ownership.

[Avian]

There is no reason to read it. The fact is we think small and none of these are plans are iconic. It is going to be another Block E part 2. I thought Minneapolis wanted to compete with its peer cities. I was wrong.

Sorry, but if you have no reason to read it you have no reason to comment about it.

[John]

There is no reason to read it. The fact is we think small and none of these are plans are iconic. It is going to be another Block E part 2. I thought Minneapolis wanted to compete with its peer cities. I was wrong.

Sorry, but if you have no reason to read it you have no reason to comment about it.

The city had legitimate concerns. If Duval couldn't present more detailed information that demonstrated his project was financially viable, I really can't blame them for rejecting his proposal. Just because he had the best design doesn't mean he has permission not to follow the rules or requirements. He looks irresponsible if not a bit haughty.

The other projects are undoubtedly financially viable. About 150 million dollars maybe a little more. That's doable. The bigger issue now is for the city to insist they improve upon the designs so they really contribute to a revitalized Nicollet Mall. I strongly doubt these developers have the ability or vision to create anything "iconic" whether shorter or taller, but at least they should be higher quality with a good pedestrian presence. All they need to do is point to Nic on Fifth down the street and say: " please don't do this "

[acs]

All they need to do is point to Nic on Fifth down the street and say: " please don't do this "

They are trying to do exactly this. The other proposals are not even close to iconic and practically everyone knew it as soon as they saw the Duval tower. If the city truly wanted something iconic on this extremely important location then they should have done all they could to accommodate the one proposal that even attempted to fulfill the requirement. Talk is cheap Jacob Frey.

[Nick]

Also, keep in mind that, while it was plastered all over every newspaper article about it, the word "iconic" is legally meaningless as far as the actual RFP is concerned. Lengthy streets.mn post with quotes and analysis will pop up in a couple weeks.

[Nathan]

All they need to do is point to Nic on Fifth down the street and say: " please don't do this "

They are trying to do exactly this. The other proposals are not even close to iconic and practically everyone knew it as soon as they saw the Duval tower. If the city truly wanted something iconic on this extremely important location then they should have done all they could to accommodate the one proposal that even attempted to fulfill the requirement. Talk is cheap Jacob Frey.

Being as you have no possible idea what duvals final project would have looked like or what the other final proposals will look like. Chill and stop pointing fingers. If the Duval project was cut to half the height every other project would be more iconic. Height is all that project had going for it and they couldn't prove the ability to achieve that. End of story. No one's fault but their own.

[John]

Height is all that project had going for it and they couldn't prove the ability to achieve that. End of story. No one's fault but their own.

I disagree that height was all it had going for it, but yeah , Duval screwed it up. I do hope he returns with another proposal elsewhere that has height, preferably closer to the tallest towers. There are still quite a few sites left downtown that need to be filled.

[GrowMPLS]

Also, keep in mind that, while it was plastered all over every newspaper article about it, the word "iconic" is legally meaningless as far as the actual RFP is concerned. Lengthy streets.mn post with quotes and analysis will pop up in a couple weeks.

True......"iconic" is very subjective. But, 20+ stories is very clear. Two of the proposals do not meet this requirement. It is very odd that the city pushed such a short deadline. Why wouldn't we want to step back.....extend the deadline and see what happens? Give developers (local, national, international) proper time to come up with a well thought through proposal!!!

[Silophant]

Yeah, I figured the short deadline meant that someone had privately come to the city with an awesome proposal, and so they were just doing the RFP as a formality, but that doesn't appear to have been the case. It should have been a much longer deadline.

[Anondson]

Was it a short deadline? What is an expected deadline if this was short? I'm not in this field so I don't know what folks would need on average to accomplish a proposal...

[EOst]

I love living in a city where five new 30+ story residential towers in a three-block area is considered immensely disappointing.

[Wedgeguy]

I love living in a city where five new 30+ story residential towers in a three-block area is considered immensely disappointing.

I remember living in a city that used to build stellar projects, but then again it was out side developers that gave us some of our best buildings! This city seems to be losing its civic pride in so many ways.

[TroyGBiv]

Do people think that the final chosen design will go through much revision? How much actual design input does the city have? I feel like the remaining three proposals have potential but are not quite there yet. I also think that the street car options are not very clear either. Any thoughts?