Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

[mullen]

off current topic.....is it just me or is the line just so messy looking? the center sections on university. maybe because it fronts all of that bland, expansive suburban style retail, running down the center of the street. it just has the feel of too much going on in a condensed space. too many stations imo. the snelling intersection is a mess. it feels like forced infrastructure. design wise it's a much more attractive project as it runs through u of mn campus and dt st paul.

subways are just so superior in all areas but sadly we aren't a dense or large enough metro to justify the expense.

[612transplant]

Aren't open air drug markets a sign of a city's vibrancy? Kind of like farmer's markets or sidewalk cafe's?

Let's ask Seattle! (in a few years...)

Seriously though, I don't really see why people freakout when someone offers to sell them drugs. It's easy enough to politely say "no thank you."

No, you're supposed to say, "Nah man, I'm good."

Then he goes: "You sure?"

And you go, "Yeah, I'm good."

And he goes "Alright....no disrespect..."

And you go, "Nah, man, you're good."

Don't ask me how I know so much about these interactions, btw.

[trkaiser]

I agree Mullen - in person, it seems like way too many stops along University, in some places like the whole line is just one big station. Along with that criticism, though, it's impressive the amount of urban variety seen along this line, from downtown MPLS, the surprisingly dense East Bank, all the different looks of University, capitol area and downtown St. Paul. It would be a great one-stop place to give a tour of the Twin Cities.

[MNdible]

Yeah, I think we discussed this early on in the planning for the Green Line. In my mind, 3/4 mile station spacing is sort of the ideal compromise between walkable station distances and not having too many stations. Unfortunately, St. Paul has major streets at full mile intervals, and semi-major street filling in at half mile intervals. So you were going to either have stations a mile apart (too far) or a half mile apart (too close).

While I didn't initially feel this way, I've come around to the view that the Central Corridor is really just enhanced limited stop service -- it's never going to be express, but it will be a nice experience, higher capacity, and marginally faster than the 50 that it's replacing.

[UptownSport]

Hard to say with stop distance
Like focusing a camera (manually) or (kinda) like calling in artillery-
You go to where you can just perceive it's off in each direction then shoot the middle!?

The only time I felt scared was on Franklin & Chicago, but saying making one frightened of bodily harm is an extreme threshold- For the most part I'm totally ignored and thats prolly why I hear so much- And I know what 'Peace Stones' are, as no one else would so knowledge is bad?

[Didier]

Regarding station distances, I'm most familiar with the area from Raymond to Minneapolis. Among those stations, which could you reasonably get rid of? The only ones I can think of might be Prospect Park or the one outside TCF Stadium, but losing either of those stadiums would ultimately make the line less useful, in my opinion. All of the stops seem to be pretty well spaced to correspond either with existing housing/business clusters or, in the case of Prospect Park station, an area that will almost certainly see more development in the near future.

[MNdible]

The added stations were all between Snelling and the State Capitol.

[UptownSport]

Were they still going to install more???
There was a lawsuit, then agreed to only plan for extra stations after line was built.
I musta missed something, or forgot

[VAStationDude]

Adding the much needed Hamline, Victoria and Western stations was a very complicated and lengthy process. See: http://dcc-stpaul-mpls.org/content/chro ... s-campaign

There is quite a gap between Fairview and Raymond but an intermediate station is really not needed. East of prior is too close to Fairview. Between Fairview and Cleveland is narrow and steep. Vandalia has very little pedestrian uses and the fire station complicates station placement. Robust bus service will more than make up for the service gap west of Raymond. IIRC the 16, 87 and 67 buses will overlap lrt for the little over a mile between Fairview and Raymond.

[612transplant]

Were they still going to install more???
There was a lawsuit, then agreed to only plan for extra stations after line was built.
I musta missed something, or forgot

The lawsuit, as I recall, "resulted" in 3 stations now under construction: Hamline, Victoria, and Western. Although, I think it had more to do with the feds changing their cost effectiveness matrix for funding than the lawsuit itself....

[talindsay]

With all due respect, I don't know how you can say you witnessed:
• A fair number of drunks
• Gang arguments
• Drug dealers
• A couple drug transactions
• One belligerent drunk who harassed you
• A fight that transit police had to intervene in

And still say your experiences weren't "actually dangerous." It would be an accurate conclusion to say that you were never directly harmed while riding the bus, but the situations listed above hardly paint the picture of a pleasant, safe experience riding that bus.

It's hard for me to blame anyone for not wanting to be a part of that, which is exactly the problem.

You aren't wrong, but keep in mind I was riding 15 times a week for a year, and the incidents were over that time. Most rides were completely forgettable. It was interesting the culture difference between the 21, the Hiawatha, and the 16.

[UptownSport]

I've seen that in just a few rides-
You've never been harassed by belligerent drunks?????

With all due respect, I don't know how you can say you witnessed:
• A fair number of drunks
• Gang arguments
• Drug dealers
• A couple drug transactions
• One belligerent drunk who harassed you
• A fight that transit police had to intervene in

And still say your experiences weren't "actually dangerous." It would be an accurate conclusion to say that you were never directly harmed while riding the bus, but the situations listed above hardly paint the picture of a pleasant, safe experience riding that bus.

It's hard for me to blame anyone for not wanting to be a part of that, which is exactly the problem.

[Suburban Outcast]

Things I have witnessed while riding either the 16, 50 or 94:
- Random lady singing, with some teens yelling at her to shut up
- Same teens start yelling at me once I got off in Downtown Saint Paul, solved that problem just by walking away
- Drunken man on scooter blocks street traffic through the 16's Midway LRT detour) and screams at the honking cars and bus, hilarity ensued
- The usual terrible hip-hop blared at full volume
- People who love speaking loud as possible on their cellphones
- Bus (16) ends up running over about a dozen traffic cones on University, before stopping to remove one out of one of the tires

I have never been harassed by drunks though, and I would not call it a dangerous experience. The bus I normally take to school though (87), is pretty quiet.

Anyways, back to the topic. About the infill stations, can't they just bypass them (by just not stopping there), and just give them less frequent headways to improve travel times through that part of the corridor?

[ECtransplant]

They could have just laid an extra set of tracks.

[mattaudio]

Is it going to be a big deal that it will take 35 minutes to travel between the downtowns? Especially since a majority of the trips will originate or terminate at a point somewhere in between? I don't think it's a big deal. And the 94 will still run to provide downtown-to-downtown express service.

[ECtransplant]

The fact that there's still the 94 is the point. Short-sighted, IMO, to build this line, but still leave people who want to go downtown-to-downtown taking the bus -- one that will be at the mercy of I94 traffic.

I live in Minneapolis and rely on public transit. I almost never go to St. Paul because it takes too long and is too inconvenient to go over there. I know a lot of people who feel the same way. Having the two cores better connected would help both, but especially downtown St. Paul, which is struggling a bit, while Minneapolis is doing quite well.

[UptownSport]

I would have done this alot differently too, but freely admit transit shouldn't be built on just UptownSport's world view.

Could I confirm the future rt 50 will only be 35 minutes downtown to downtown????
If so, that'd beat my current trips on the 94!!! (My destination is future 50 stop at Lexington!!!)

[mulad]

It all depends on exactly where you're starting from and going to, but yes, Nicollet Mall station in Minneapolis to Central station in Saint Paul should be 35 minutes. Here's a travel-time matrix that was posted at an open house for the CCLRT-induced changes to bus routes:



Image link

[FISHMANPET]

Doesn't the 94 usually use shoulder lanes, so doesn't take all that long? Or did we take out the shoulders after 35W fell?

Having express stops requires a lot more switches and/or sidings. The 94 could probably benefit from some BRT style amenity upgrades to make it a more attractive option for getting between the downtowns.

[UptownSport]

Thats Quick!!!!
The 94 takes 20-28 minutes (depending on exact route), I wonder if it's really worth keeping?
It makes several stops along 8th; removing those and given signal priority would make it 'zip'.

Walking from 94 up Lexington to University takes a lot of time, and I usually get close to Lexington before the 21 passes-
so just for me, the train would be like Limo service.

I see it's 87% complete now:
Central Corridor Website

I'm very excited (if you couldn't tell) for it to open!

Hope it doesn't impact businesses and residents too much