urbanMSP

slouching toward mediocrity is the metier of Minneapolis developers

easy to blame the financiers, but unless you come to the table with a compelling anxiety-dispelling project, the financiers naturally are going to scale things back. And just how hard a sell could those extra six floors have been? The urban core is clearly growing; the economy is (relatively) stable, diversified and growing; and vacancies are few.

The argument could have been made persuasively in the language financiers understand. I doubt that argument was made, much less made well.

Yes, this is about playing it safe and cautious with no risk involved. Actually, the loss of height and floors makes it far less appealing to a significant niche of people wanting to live an urban lifestyle. There are many people here who just don't get it about life in the big city. You do get a sense that backward provincialism influenced the downsizing of this project.

First of all, this is nothing but conjecture about other people's money.

Second, the people who were going to live in the first 27 stories of this 35-story building will still live in the first 27 stories of the 27-story building.

Obviously everybody on this message board would have preferred 35 stories, but let's come back from the ledge a bit please.

The vast majority of people in New York and Manhattan for that matter live below the fifth floor. Urban living is not about being above the 27th floor, its about having access to a vibrant city. 27 floors will provide lots of foot traffic, I am not sure how tenants will interact with Nicollet, but I think it will be positive.

The vast majority of people in New York and Manhattan for that matter live below the fifth floor. Urban living is not about being above the 27th floor, its about having access to a vibrant city. 27 floors will provide lots of foot traffic, I am not sure how tenants will interact with Nicollet, but I think it will be positive.

Sir, There are at least tens of thousands of people in Manhattan who live above 30 stories! And there are many people who choose to live very high up as part of their love for urban living. I think Nicollet Residences will still be a pretty good development, and I think the street level in particular will be great for the corner of 5th and Nicollet. But lowering its height is not positive news. The building will be more squat and bulky for one thing. It makes it feel like a more mediocre project with the loss of verticality and height. IMO, its a big bummer that is happening to what was a really awesome project.

I don't think anyone is at the ledge about the change. I also think it's reasonable to be disappointed and default to certain assumptions when no statement explaining the reason for the change was given. My frustration is directed at the unknown lender(s) for this project. Did those extra few floors really require you to make such a drastic change in covenants or interest rate such that Opus felt the need to scale it back? It seems silly without more context. IMO, economies of scale justify 33 stories if you're willing to finance 27, especially with an apartment complex where you aren't counting on a % of condos sold.

It seems so ironic to me that they are shaving off the top 6 stories that would be the most coveted rental units in the project. The amount of rental income they generate from the top 6 floors would be substantial. Its as if they are eliminating the most profitable part of the project in order to get the proper financing for the project. Very strange!

By that logic, why stop at 35? Why not just built 1,000 stories?

By that logic, why stop at 35? Why not just built 1,000 stories?

Well, if it was about 45 stories, then I'd really be happy! The top 6 stories of the original 33 story project is where a spectacular view truly became part of the amenity of living there. As I have said over and over again, this is a significant factor for many people who choose to live in a high rise! It makes the project less competitive in attracting renters.

I don't think 6 floors makes to much of a big impact in a negative way. Also if by cutting it down 6 floors is what it takes to make this building go from a parking lot to the construction phase I WILL TAKE IT! Also if the reduction also means a greater shot at the Lasalle tower also being built that will be great too! Keep in mind everyone we also have the SOO Line building right next door being converted to urban living. A 27 floor building will be a great addition to downtown!

Without a downtown casino and the Vikings stadium planned for the same spot I don't think downtown is an easy sell yet. Although with the new Lund's and soon to be Whole Foods I am hoping for a nice development around Hennepin and 10th (also the block west too!) a nice 12-25 floor building would be fantastic too!

I personally agree with the developer if by cutting it down by 6 floors made the financing come quicker then it's better to have that than sticking to a plan that never gets built! *cough cough* Nicollet Tower *cough* Finally the Skyway to nowhere will go SOMEWHERE NICE!

By that logic, why stop at 35? Why not just built 1,000 stories?

Well, if it was about 45 stories, then I'd really be happy! The top 6 stories of the original 33 story project is where a spectacular view truly became part of the amenity of living there. As I have said over and over again, this is a significant factor for many people who choose to live in a high rise! It makes the project less competitive in attracting renters.

Why are you so set on a 45-story tower? Honestly, if someone wanted to build three, 15-story residential buildings in this area, I'd be happy. I would be really excited if the buildings were outside the norm of what's recently been built around the TC area, which has been very bland. Most importantly, downtown would be losing another parking lot / ramp.

By that logic, why stop at 35? Why not just built 1,000 stories?

Well, if it was about 45 stories, then I'd really be happy! The top 6 stories of the original 33 story project is where a spectacular view truly became part of the amenity of living there. As I have said over and over again, this is a significant factor for many people who choose to live in a high rise! It makes the project less competitive in attracting renters.

Why are you so set on a 45-story tower? Honestly, if someone wanted to build three, 15-story residential buildings in this area, I'd be happy. I would be really excited if the buildings were outside the norm of what's recently been built around the TC area, which has been very bland. Most importantly, downtown would be losing another parking lot / ramp.

I wasn't being serious about 45 stories, just making a little self effacing joke.

The vast majority of people in New York and Manhattan for that matter live below the fifth floor. Urban living is not about being above the 27th floor, its about having access to a vibrant city. 27 floors will provide lots of foot traffic, I am not sure how tenants will interact with Nicollet, but I think it will be positive.

This.

This is still possibly the most exciting project around because of the location right in the heart of the CBD. The effect of the building on the streetscape will still be 80% of what it would have been with the extra 6 floors.

Even if the building was 36 floors, hypothetically you would still have all the apartments filled from the 27th floor down.

Even if the building was 36 floors, hypothetically you would still have all the apartments filled from the 27th floor down.

huh, what is your point? Are you trying to say that a 36 floor building would have been a good option too?

What I was trying to say, was that even if they only make it 27 stories, I doubt they will have any trouble filling it. We would all love more floors, but I am sure they could only finance enough for 27.

If it's 27 floors, so be it. Much better than a parking lot and as others have said, it's not the last spot in downtown. If this building is very successful, that 45 story building everyone wants will follow soon enough!

I would mostly agree they shouldn't have to much problems reaching 100% occupancy although with the Soo Line building right next door, Lasalle tower about to start construction and the many other projects in the area I'm sure they are re-crunching the numbers and feeling a tad less enthusiastic about the overall success.

What I don't understand is how Opus was touting this development as a "New York style" apartment building , and now scales it back to 27 floors. Sounds more like a "Omaha Style " apartment building to me! The upper floors are frequently what give a high rise apartment complex appeal to renters in other big cities. The top floor is sometimes a party space or amenity space with a great view for all renters to enjoy. There are going to be way fewer of these rentals (with views) compared to its previous 33 story version. I guess I wonder who's going to pay all that high priced rent to look at nothing?

Most Apartment buildings in NYC are about 10-25 stories with some exceptions. I should know, I live in Manhattan in a 12 story apartment building built in 2011. There are some exceptions to this rule, however. Particularly around Midtown/Time Square but I would say that 90% of the Apartment buildings in Manhattan are between 10-25 stories. So maybe your sense of "New York Style" is fantasy since a 27 story building would fit beautifully in Manhattan and wouldn't look out of place at all. Almost any building larger than 35 stories is an office building again with few exceptions.


And there are no 45 story apartment buildings in Omaha. The tallest Apartment building in Omaha is around 20 stories built in the late 60's. I don't remember it's name but I believe its for seniors only.

It's really not tall buildings that make cities special and urban. Look at Paris and several neighborhoods of NYC as an example. It's density and streetscape that make a difference. We should not complain that buildings aren't tall enough. We should complain that our streets are too wide and fast, while doing a poor job accommodating pedestrians enough. We should demand our streets be tamed if we ever want create a comfortable, urban neighborhood feel. Once this happens, great developments, great architecture, great retail, and a great city will surely follow.

why do they always have to scale the height back? typical minneapolis...