urbanMSP

It's a different angle. I doubt it was ever going to appear 'soaring', with or without the 6 stories. Renderings usually show you what they want you to see.

John, somehow I get the feeling that lowering the height of this building has annoyed you in some way...
That rendering isn't really designed to show off the Nicollet Residences, it is for the Xcel headquarters building, so of course it isn't going to look soaring.

Well, as a scientist, I counted the floors on the main drag of the building in the new rendering and got about 22, so if you count ~4ish in the pedestal, that's about right.

This is about as much of a picture I can find of the revised Nicollet Residences ( behind the new Xcel Energy building). The cantilevered crown is squatter than the 33 story proposal, in addition to the loss of 6 stories. Has much less visual impact. Still can't believe they would cut the top six stories which would have been their most coveted rental units.

I bet you that if they COULD cut the bottom 6 stories and retain the top 6, they would.....if that makes you feel any better about it.....

Well, as a scientist, I counted the floors on the main drag of the building in the new rendering and got about 22, so if you count ~4ish in the pedestal, that's about right.

Thank goodness we have a scientist on board who can verify the height of this pictured proposal!

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I realize property ownership plays a bit part, but I don't think that it couldn't have happened because of seperate ownership.

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I realize property ownership plays a bit part, but I don't think that it couldn't have happened because of seperate ownership.

Seriously? We have a ton of great sites for potential office towers. "Reserving" a site like this for one seems kind of idiotic.

I dont think mixed use with office and apartments would be smart for a developer. I would think eventually the plan would be to turn these apartments into condos. That goes out the door if you add an office component. When you have a mixed use property, it is a lot harder for the condo buyer to get financing through a typical lender. A hassle many borrowers are not willing to put up with.

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I realize property ownership plays a bit part, but I don't think that it couldn't have happened because of seperate ownership.

Seriously? We have a ton of great sites for potential office towers. "Reserving" a site like this for one seems kind of idiotic.

Let's not forget Opus has owned this site for ~25 years. They had an office proposal ten years ago that didn't pan out. This site has been vacant long enough. I'm just glad to see something tall being built here.

I am very happy to see this block get developed. Just very disappointed to see Nicollet Residences scaled back. The corner of 5th and Nicollet is such a prominent intersection of downtown. I wish Opus would reconfigure this development and make this into a mutli-use development to make the building taller. A hotel as part of the mix would work extremely well here with the LRT at its footstep. There has been a lot of debate on this website recently about high rise versus low or mid rise development, and how that visually impacts a person's sense of what is urban and dense. My feeling is there is a time and place for different scaled development. 5th and Nicollet is that time and place for something tall. 27 stories just doesn't make the grade. It is an opportunity lost

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I realize property ownership plays a bit part, but I don't think that it couldn't have happened because of seperate ownership.

Seriously? We have a ton of great sites for potential office towers. "Reserving" a site like this for one seems kind of idiotic.

I wouldn't take the BEST space though and make it into this....and that's my personal opinion (you don't have to agree).

I dont think mixed use with office and apartments would be smart for a developer. I would think eventually the plan would be to turn these apartments into condos. That goes out the door if you add an office component. When you have a mixed use property, it is a lot harder for the condo buyer to get financing through a typical lender. A hassle many borrowers are not willing to put up with.

What? Trump Tower in Chicago is mixed use with office, hotel and condos.

I am very happy to see this block get developed. Just very disappointed to see Nicollet Residences scaled back. The corner of 5th and Nicollet is such a prominent intersection of downtown. I wish Opus would reconfigure this development and make this into a mutli-use development to make the building taller. A hotel as part of the mix would work extremely well here with the LRT at its footstep. There has been a lot of debate on this website recently about high rise versus low or mid rise development, and how that visually impacts a person's sense of what is urban and dense. My feeling is there is a time and place for different scaled development. 5th and Nicollet is that time and place for something tall. 27 stories just doesn't make the grade. It is an opportunity lost

It's only prominent when it comes to the street level so whether it's an "opportunity lost" or not will depend on how well that portion of these buildings are designed. Six stories will be hardly noticeable when you're standing on the sidewalk.

Look, I would LOVE something that makes a significant impact on our skyline but this location is no better for that than multiple others.

I dont think mixed use with office and apartments would be smart for a developer. I would think eventually the plan would be to turn these apartments into condos. That goes out the door if you add an office component. When you have a mixed use property, it is a lot harder for the condo buyer to get financing through a typical lender. A hassle many borrowers are not willing to put up with.

What? Trump Tower in Chicago is mixed use with office, hotel and condos.

Trump Chicago is only hotel, condos, and retail. And not a very good example of a successful project. Trump nearly lost the building to the lender. Many buyers did have difficultly qualifying for mortgages for their homes in that building. But that was primarily due to other factors.

I can't recall difficulty of buyers securing financing in office/residential buildings. Many condo buildings in downtown St. Paul are mixed use with office/residential purposes. I've never heard of problems for buyers because the buildings have mixed uses. It may be a problem in other markets, but it isn't one in my neighborhood.

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I agree. It's too bad Opus didn't take the final proposal plans for the Nicollet into consideration, which was to be a mixed-use, 55-story tower. I really wish that proposal would surface again as the tower would have been a nice addition to our increasingly insignificant skyline.

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I agree. It's too bad Opus didn't take the final proposal plans for the Nicollet into consideration, which was to be a mixed-use, 55-story tower. I really wish that proposal would surface again as the tower would have been a nice addition to our increasingly insignificant skyline.

I'm in agreement with both of you. This could easily be reconfigured to be a highly profitable one block development with Xcel as the major office tenant, in addition to a hotel and residential high rise. This could most certainly be a 50-60 story development of IDS stature. The problem is I'm not sure Opus has the savvy, vision, or expertise for something like that. You might need someone like Hines to build it. This is one of the last golden opportunities for a significant tower on Nicollet Mall, and its being widdled away by a much too cautious and conservative developer who doesn't realize its potential.

I NEVER liked the design of this thing, or even having this location being 100% residential. I ALWAYS wanted Opus to put up, at the very least, a mixed-use building or office building -- 30 floors MINIMUM. This location is THE location in downtown for new development, IMO, and I think this is a serious "whiff" by Opus and the City! I'm not saying I'd rather ride out the Recession and wait for Office to be hot again.....but if you think about it, this location COULD have been the combination of the Xcel proposal AND the Nicollet Residences.....now THAT would have sufficed for this site!! It would have been roughly 500 feet tall, too!

I agree. It's too bad Opus didn't take the final proposal plans for the Nicollet into consideration, which was to be a mixed-use, 55-story tower. I really wish that proposal would surface again as the tower would have been a nice addition to our increasingly insignificant skyline.

I'm in agreement with both of you. This could easily be reconfigured to be a highly profitable one block development with Xcel as the major office tenant, in addition to a hotel and residential high rise. This could most certainly be a 50-60 story development of IDS stature. The problem is I'm not sure Opus has the savvy, vision, or expertise for something like that. You might need someone like Hines to build it. This is one of the last golden opportunities for a significant tower on Nicollet Mall, and its being widdled away by a much too cautious and conservative developer who doesn't realize its potential.

You guys are seriously over simplifying the difficulties in building tall buildings. 20-30 more stories adds significantly to the costs of a building. The current 27 story proposal is probably in the $80-90 million cost range. A 40-story residential building would be around $130 million (ie Carlyle). A 44-story all office building in OKC was recently finished and it cost $750 million. Once you start passing 40 and 50 stories the costs start to rise exponentially. There are reasons 40+ story buildings don't get built left and right around here. It costs BIG bucks. And other than Magellan, nobody is even trying to do what they're proposing right now in the TC.

They're also doing this without subsidies. Just look at another developer like Dominium. They're doing a pair of $100+ million projects (i.e. the Schmidt Brewary and Pillsbury A mill). But the only way they can finance them is by receiving tens of millions of dollars in bonds from the Minneapolis and St. Paul.

So let's stop with the Opus bashing over a few less floors.

I hated the Nicollet. I thought the arc was cheesy. I think Nicollet Residences will still be a great project if it ever gets off the ground.

I agree. It's too bad Opus didn't take the final proposal plans for the Nicollet into consideration, which was to be a mixed-use, 55-story tower. I really wish that proposal would surface again as the tower would have been a nice addition to our increasingly insignificant skyline.

I'm in agreement with both of you. This could easily be reconfigured to be a highly profitable one block development with Xcel as the major office tenant, in addition to a hotel and residential high rise. This could most certainly be a 50-60 story development of IDS stature. The problem is I'm not sure Opus has the savvy, vision, or expertise for something like that. You might need someone like Hines to build it. This is one of the last golden opportunities for a significant tower on Nicollet Mall, and its being widdled away by a much too cautious and conservative developer who doesn't realize its potential.

You guys are seriously over simplifying the difficulties in building tall buildings. 20-30 more stories adds significantly to the costs of a building. The current 27 story proposal is probably in the $80-90 million cost range. A 40-story residential building would be around $130 million (ie Carlyle). A 44-story all office building in OKC was recently finished and it cost $750 million. Once you start passing 40 and 50 stories the costs start to rise exponentially. There are reasons 40+ story buildings don't get built left and right around here. It costs BIG bucks. And other than Magellan, nobody is even trying to do what they're proposing right now in the TC.

They're also doing this without subsidies. Just look at another developer like Dominium. They're doing a pair of $100+ million projects (i.e. the Schmidt Brewary and Pillsbury A mill). But the only way they can finance them is by receiving tens of millions of dollars in bonds from the Minneapolis and St. Paul.

So let's stop with the Opus bashing over a few less floors.

Opus is a good developer, but not quite in the major leagues as demonstrated by their miniscule Xcel Energy building and the recently circumsized Nicollet Residence. And to say that we cannot sustainably build a tower here of significant height is bolderdash! This could be the flagship development of Opus.They have all the necessary ingredients for a major project of very substantial proportion: a major corporation wanting new office space, a booming market for downtown living, a location on a block with direct access to the burgeoning LRT system that also fronts Minneapolis' premier street of Nicollet Mall. This parcel is like a developer's dream come true. Opus should really rethink this block's potential: the sum of its whole is much greater than its parts.

I agree. It's too bad Opus didn't take the final proposal plans for the Nicollet into consideration, which was to be a mixed-use, 55-story tower. I really wish that proposal would surface again as the tower would have been a nice addition to our increasingly insignificant skyline.

I'm in agreement with both of you. This could easily be reconfigured to be a highly profitable one block development with Xcel as the major office tenant, in addition to a hotel and residential high rise. This could most certainly be a 50-60 story development of IDS stature. The problem is I'm not sure Opus has the savvy, vision, or expertise for something like that. You might need someone like Hines to build it. This is one of the last golden opportunities for a significant tower on Nicollet Mall, and its being widdled away by a much too cautious and conservative developer who doesn't realize its potential.

You guys are seriously over simplifying the difficulties in building tall buildings. 20-30 more stories adds significantly to the costs of a building. The current 27 story proposal is probably in the $80-90 million cost range. A 40-story residential building would be around $130 million (ie Carlyle). A 44-story all office building in OKC was recently finished and it cost $750 million. Once you start passing 40 and 50 stories the costs start to rise exponentially. There are reasons 40+ story buildings don't get built left and right around here. It costs BIG bucks. And other than Magellan, nobody is even trying to do what they're proposing right now in the TC.

They're also doing this without subsidies. Just look at another developer like Dominium. They're doing a pair of $100+ million projects (i.e. the Schmidt Brewary and Pillsbury A mill). But the only way they can finance them is by receiving tens of millions of dollars in bonds from the Minneapolis and St. Paul.

So let's stop with the Opus bashing over a few less floors.

I realize all of this. In fact, I believe the office market is waiting for avg. Class A space to lease at north of $25/SF, in which case demand for speculative space and more expensive construction costs would be merited. We're not there yet (think Class A is between $20 and $25 per foot currently in downtown) and I'm not sure I'd want to wait until we were there, in the meantime turning down perfectly worthy proposals for something grander. However, I just find it unfortunate timing (let's call it that) that THIS is what became of this site. That being said, we're probably lucky to even have this, so I'm not trying to complain.....I'm just not as giddy as some of you are for this project in this location, that all.

Opus is a good developer, but not quite in the major leagues as demonstrated by their miniscule Xcel Energy building and the recently circumsized Nicollet Residence. And to say that we cannot sustainably build a tower here of significant height is bolderdash! This could be the flagship development of Opus.They have all the necessary ingredients for a major project of very substantial proportion: a major corporation wanting new office space, a booming market for downtown living, a location on a block with direct access to the burgeoning LRT system that also fronts Minneapolis' premier street of Nicollet Mall. This parcel is like a developer's dream come true. Opus should really rethink this block's potential: the sum of its whole is much greater than its parts.

I don't think there's any chance Xcel Energy would co-locate its headquarter offices with apartments in the same building. So toss that option out the window.