DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[twincitizen]

If I'm commuting from just about any suburb to downtown Minneapolis, I don't really give a rat's behind about proximity to LRT. Proximity to the Marq2 express bus corridor is way more important now and for many years to come. Even with Southwest and Bottineau online, the vast majority of transit riders will still reach downtown on a bus. That's a significant jog from Marq2 over to this new hypothetical office building. Anywhere from .3 mi as the crow flies to over .5 depending on the angle of the dangle. Yeah, not that far at all, but these are suburbanites we're talking about. They only walk at the gym (after driving there).

(Not that I'm Mr. Pro-skyways, but) It looks like the skyway system doesn't really continue east of 3rd Avenue, halted by the "government wall" of HennCo, City Hall, and the Court building. Numerous new connections would have to be made to meaningfully connect these new buildings to the core, where all of the lunch crowd businesses are located.

I guess I'm backing up redisciple's point that this isn't "the core"

Of course I'm not suggesting that this shouldn't happen, just providing some food for thought as to how transit commuters will get here.

[beykite]

Anywhere from .3 mi as the crow flies to over .5 depending on the angle of the dangle. Yeah, not that far at all, but these are suburbanites we're talking about. They only walk at the gym (after driving there).

Yea tell me about it... I've had to turn down quiet a few well paying jobs because they were located a little too far from my bus stop. And please you are just setting yourself up with that last statement...

I'm going to have to say I'd be just about fine with 90% of any designs for this site. At the end of the day it's eliminating almost 3 whole blocks of surface parking, cutting down on the barren waste land to get to the Mill District via 5th, and doing what so many people constantly babbel on about on here (making the few remaining sites in the CBD even more attractive for a supertall)

[nasa35]

Seriously, imagine this at the normandy ritz site.

http://newconstructionmanhattan.com/sit ... tments.png

[Nathan]

Seriously, imagine this at the normandy ritz site.

http://newconstructionmanhattan.com/sit ... tments.png

I've seen it in real life even, it's such a static building, even just angling one corner or something could be a world of difference. I guess it wasn't very successful either... (word of mouth)

[nasa35]

Seriously, imagine this at the normandy ritz site.

http://newconstructionmanhattan.com/sit ... tments.png

I've seen it in real life even, it's such a static building, even just angling one corner or something could be a world of difference. I guess it wasn't very successful either... (word of mouth)

They just started building it. The glass will be spectacular.

[min-chi-cbus]

Does anyone else think two full-block "gameday plazas" are too much?

I'd be okay with it if they left the outside halves of the blocks open for development to line the greenway/plaza that would run down the middle. So, in essance, a half block wide, two-block long greenway/plaza with (probably) residential or retail lining on both sides. I'd be okay with that.

[Nathan]

Seriously, imagine this at the normandy ritz site.

http://newconstructionmanhattan.com/sit ... tments.png

I've seen it in real life even, it's such a static building, even just angling one corner or something could be a world of difference. I guess it wasn't very successful either... (word of mouth)

They just started building it. The glass will be spectacular.

My friend intentionally walked me past the site, with renderings and such on it, and hinted that he didn't think it was selling as fast as they'd hoped...

[nasa35]

i can imagine. I think the cheapest plan is 5 million all the way up to 100 million.

whew!

[swmpls]

Not too much new information here - mostly just about the city looking at subsidies. The initial proposal is for about 460 apartments and 1 million sq feet of office space:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 10151.html

[nasa35]

Not too much new information here - mostly just about the city looking at subsidies. The initial proposal is for about 460 apartments and 1 million sq feet of office space:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 10151.html

This confirms my information. That this will not be a campus. It will essentially be two projects. The housing and park and then the highrise office tower.

[min-chi-cbus]

Not too much new information here - mostly just about the city looking at subsidies. The initial proposal is for about 460 apartments and 1 million sq feet of office space:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 10151.html

This confirms my information. That this will not be a campus. It will essentially be two projects. The housing and park and then the highrise office tower.

It does...how? 1M square feet isn't really a crazy-high size for a campus but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be one building. Same with the housing portion. In fact, I can't even fathom a 460 unit housing structure (on one city block) considering that the Loring Park Apartments project is about 350 units and Whole Foods is 286 -- and both are massive!!

Just a reminder, the 25-30 story office buildings built at the turn of the 21st century in downtown Mpls were all about 500K SF, but that should not necessarily indicate that Well Fargo is going to build something 50-60 floors tall. For one thing, those other projects all had less than 1/2 of a block to work with. If Wells has the same footprint, THEN I'd start getting giddy!

Also, stupid question I'm sure, but what is this proposed area zoned currently? If it's not zoned for anything tall, will that be an issue?

[min-chi-cbus]

Directly from the article from the Strib:

"Ryan is considering a development that includes 460 apartments and 1 million square feet of office and retail space."

"defer $35 million in taxes generated by the new development over 25 years -- a subsidy subject to extensive government approvals -- to help build a large plaza or green space for public use."

"One of the blocks houses the Star Tribune's headquarters, while the other three are largely surface parking lots."

"It would represent one of the largest uses of the financial tool, known as tax increment financing (TIF), in Minneapolis in the past 10 years."

"Collins declined to elaborate Thursday on Wells Fargo or the potential high-rise buildings outlined in the e-mails, calling the latter 'one development scenario.' He stressed that the tax savings would support a public space, rather than their 'vertical development.' He said it was too early to say whether their project hinges on the TIF dollars."

"'What we have said is that in order to make this area attractive, it needs to have better space available for enjoyment by citizens and for prospective tenants than it has today,' Collins said."

So if I'm reading this correctly (and this is bigger news that I was made to believe).....

-there are up to THREE block in play for 1M SF of office space, 460 apartments and retail
-this would potentially require a HUGE TIF subsidy and cause an uproar for sure
-the contingency of the TIF subsidy is to promote green space/public space, and NOT the development itself
-any talk of a "vertical development" is only one of a number of potential options

[nasa35]

Not too much new information here - mostly just about the city looking at subsidies. The initial proposal is for about 460 apartments and 1 million sq feet of office space:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 10151.html

This confirms my information. That this will not be a campus. It will essentially be two projects. The housing and park and then the highrise office tower.

It does...how? 1M square feet isn't really a crazy-high size for a campus but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be one building. Same with the housing portion. In fact, I can't even fathom a 460 unit housing structure (on one city block) considering that the Loring Park Apartments project is about 350 units and Whole Foods is 286 -- and both are massive!!

Just a reminder, the 25-30 story office buildings built at the turn of the 21st century in downtown Mpls were all about 500K SF, but that should not necessarily indicate that Well Fargo is going to build something 50-60 floors tall. For one thing, those other projects all had less than 1/2 of a block to work with. If Wells has the same footprint, THEN I'd start getting giddy!

Also, stupid question I'm sure, but what is this proposed area zoned currently? If it's not zoned for anything tall, will that be an issue?

I almost want to say...DUH, oh, I did.

460 units of housing and A PARK is going to probably use up three blocks. That leaves a one block campus?? Really, a campus, on one block? Common sense

[mnmike]

Regardless of what this ends up being...hopefully they can lock Wells in, which I don't think they have yet. What do we think a timeline on this project might be?

[TWA]

Wells Fargo just announced today a $5.1 Billion profit in Q4... so hopefully that leads them to do the deal- and not cut corners on the project either

[go4guy]

If I am reading the article correct, isn't it implying that the TIF is strictly so they use the two blocks along the line as green space? So wouldnt that essentially leave just the other two blocks for all that development? From that thought, this could be pretty impressive vertically.

And just thinking out loud here. Aren't most towers usually taking up 1/4 or 1/3 of a block? so maybe each of these blocks will have a couple towers on them?

Better yet, can someone become a mole at Ryan and just let us know what the plans look like?

[mattaudio]

I expect you will see floor plates at least the size of 1/2 block at this location, for the office area at least.

[Nathan]

Wells Fargo just announced today a $5.1 Billion profit in Q4... so hopefully that leads them to do the deal- and not cut corners on the project either

Awesome!

[nasa35]

I would suggest two 25-35 floors for the residential side.

50-70 floors on the office.

[Nathan]

I would suggest two 25-35 floors for the residential side.

50-70 floors on the office.

You're hired! I hope we get something along that nature. though 4 30+ buildings would be decent too...