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Viktor Vaughn
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Viktor Vaughn » February 14th, 2013, 2:45 pm

Cars flying across the sidewalk midblock for one. And those obnoxious signs flashing and blaring "Caution, car approaching".

nordeast homer
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby nordeast homer » February 14th, 2013, 3:00 pm

Even if the stadium spills over Portland, you would think you could build Portland underneath that portion a la Target Field and the train tracks. With HCMC right there I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in favor of closing that off (other than the developer).
I'm anxious to see what the final design will look like. I'm getting annoyed that they keep referring to the 'ribbon' sketch as the stadium design rather than just a preliminary sketch.

nordeast homer
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby nordeast homer » February 14th, 2013, 3:03 pm

Cars flying across the sidewalk midblock for one. And those obnoxious signs flashing and blaring "Caution, car approaching".
Still, how is that different than any other office building? IDS, Wells Fargo, RBC, US Bank, Target, shall I go on?

Viktor Vaughn
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Viktor Vaughn » February 14th, 2013, 3:20 pm

Because those buildings have parking ramps? Office use doesn't generate cars coming in and out of buildings, the parking component does. Presumably a 2,500 stall, 10 floor parking garage is going to generate a lot more auto traffic than an office building with 2 floors of underground parking.

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trkaiser
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby trkaiser » February 14th, 2013, 3:46 pm

Closing Park/Portland there would be absurd, and nobody likes a parking ramp, but I don't understand how this is such a surprise or so upsetting that they're going to want a ramp for this. Wouldn't this ramp make it more likely that more lots would be gobbled up?

mattaudio
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby mattaudio » February 14th, 2013, 4:30 pm

Closing a street is unacceptable. Covering a street like this http://goo.gl/maps/bmoFl is unacceptable.

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 14th, 2013, 5:03 pm

Cars flying across the sidewalk midblock for one. And those obnoxious signs flashing and blaring "Caution, car approaching".
Still, how is that different than any other office building? IDS, Wells Fargo, RBC, US Bank, Target, shall I go on?
Because at 4:30pm, instead of having 2,500 people spilling out into the public realm, you have 2,500 cars spilling into a place where walkability and urbanity should be at the forefront.

mplser
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby mplser » February 14th, 2013, 8:18 pm

um... NO! Where can i go and speak out against closing these roads? as someone buying a property in Elliot Park, I would rather not see my neighborhood severed from the river even more than it already is by the stadium...

seanrichardryan
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby seanrichardryan » February 14th, 2013, 9:06 pm

Idiots. All of em'
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

martykoessel
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby martykoessel » February 14th, 2013, 9:26 pm

There is one way I might see this working.

Portland and Park are each 3 lanes. Two lanes tunnel under the blocks between 3rd and 5th (I'm assuming). One lane each way becomes a turn lane onto 3rd or 5th. This layout creates no interference with any sidewalk, eases vehicle travel between Washington and 6th, and makes the blocks between 3rd and 5th much more pedestrian friendly.

DC uses this sort of thing to reduce traffic flows around some of its major squares and circles.

However, without good design the entrances and exits from the tunnels can be ugly. Also, considering the density of utilities beneath the streets and the fact that light rail would pass overhead, we're talking very big bucks. Unless someone has a project great enough to justify this sort of investment, I'm thinking I've described a non-starter.

As for any plan that involves closing Portland or Park, I'm completely in line with Hennepin County's view that this is also a non-starter.

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Andrew_F
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby Andrew_F » February 14th, 2013, 9:30 pm

Regardless of closing the streets, I'm against a stadium that needs more than the 6 blocks it has already been given. Seriously.

John
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby John » February 14th, 2013, 9:33 pm

That's how I read it, Lordmoke. It's interesting how the article didn't mention Ryan or Wells Fargo, just development west of the stadium. This kind of supports the superblock corporate campus suspicion, doesn't it?

And yes, your strong language is warranted...
The Ryan project is sounding more like a suburban interchange office development everyday. I hope it doesn't end up looking like that. :(. Closing Portland and Park is ridiculous. I'm glad the county is strongly opposed to the idea.

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Nick
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Nick » February 14th, 2013, 9:36 pm

I moved the conversation about the hypothetical street closure to the Strib blocks thread, as it seems like it's more related to that.
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PhilmerPhil
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 14th, 2013, 11:27 pm

Does it say anywhere that the streets will be completely shut down and obstructed by superblock development or if they will simply be shut down to auto traffic to allow for a Loring Greenway-esque pedestrian and bike zone? If the latter, I'd be very interested to see more detailed proposals. Anything to get the miserable streetscapes in DTE more accommodating and welcoming to human beings.
Last edited by PhilmerPhil on February 15th, 2013, 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

nasa35

Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby nasa35 » February 15th, 2013, 7:22 am

That's how I read it, Lordmoke. It's interesting how the article didn't mention Ryan or Wells Fargo, just development west of the stadium. This kind of supports the superblock corporate campus suspicion, doesn't it?

And yes, your strong language is warranted...
The Ryan project is sounding more like a suburban interchange office development everyday. I hope it doesn't end up looking like that. :(. Closing Portland and Park is ridiculous. I'm glad the county is strongly opposed to the idea.
Yeah; the Ryan guy I talked to weeeks ago was pretty optimistic; yesterday he said the word campus.

sigh

the other scott
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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby the other scott » February 15th, 2013, 11:19 am

um... NO! Where can i go and speak out against closing these roads? as someone buying a property in Elliot Park, I would rather not see my neighborhood severed from the river even more than it already is by the stadium...
I'm sure Hennepin County Commissioner Peter McLaughlin and Board Chair Mike Opat would love to hear from you. Park and Portland are County roads, and from what those two said in the Strib article, closing Park and Portland simply will not happen.

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Re: Vikings Stadium

Postby John » February 15th, 2013, 11:49 am

Yeah; the Ryan guy I talked to weeeks ago was pretty optimistic; yesterday he said the word campus.
sigh
I guess what concerns me most about the "corporate campus" concept is if these blocks are only used as an office park. It will be a dead zone of activity and roll up after 5pm. If this happens, Wells Fargo and Ryan are obviously taking the easy way out. It will be awful. If this project is going to contribute to making this part of downtown active, it needs to have multiple uses and activities occuring on at least two or three of the 4 blocks. There should be a combination of hotel, retail ,entertainment, and residential included in the mix. It should feed off and take advantage of the energy of the new stadium. You think this would be an absolute "given" in this project.

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Nathan
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Nathan » February 18th, 2013, 4:50 pm

I've decided I'm totally cool with the parking... as long as Zaha Hadid or Herzog and deMuron Design something like they have both done for Miami... ;)

Image

Image

John
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby John » February 18th, 2013, 5:15 pm

^^^Those are very cool and they have the right attitude in Miami ! Realistically, there's going to have to be a significant amount of parking for both the Stadium and StarTribune blocks. It's unavoidable. So then make the parking ramps look great!

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Wedgeguy » February 18th, 2013, 5:45 pm

^^^Those are very cool and they have the right attitude in Miami ! Realistically, there's going to have to be a significant amount of parking for both the Stadium and StarTribune blocks. It's unavoidable. So then make the parking ramps look great!
Hide the parking structure in the center of the block like they did with the Baker Block. Can't really tell there is a parking structure on that block.


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