DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[Wedgeguy]

You have a choice between a green windswept place that you can play food ball on or you can have a park like Mear's or Rice in St. Paul. There is not room for both here. You have major street traffic so over throwing the ball could lead to accidents and lawsuits for damage to or from avoiding vehicles or persons not or in in their lanes do to the football. While the Vikings may think it looks good for their marketing to paint a field on the grass. That will last until the first death of a player hit by a vehicle and they are sued. I'd probably say that the city would also be on the hook for some of the damages too. So don't get your hopes up for a football field. If that is what the Viking's want then they should buy the block and then they will be wholly responsible for what happens on that land. Until then, I want a real city park with lots of tree all over the block.

[EOst]

I don't mean it can't happen, but it can't be (and shouldn't be) what we're planning it for.

[IllogicalJake]

Is a painted field required for a casual pick-up game? I honestly don't know...

[grant1simons2]

No it's not. All you need is a field and a group of friends and a ball

[Didier]

You need a football. Maybe some sneakers and a pair of shorts too. At a minimum.

[J2K]

Hate football much, Wedgeguy? I can just picture people getting hit by cars trying to catch friendly passes. LOL. I agree with your ideas of what it should be though. Don't be alarmed by the renderings showing the football grid, architects like to have a little fun with their renderings.

[grant1simons2]

I added football. Whoops. But really there isn't even any official bid in place yet but one of the main wants for this area is a large field

[Wedgeguy]

Hating or loving football has nothing to do with the park. Same can be said for baseball, and soccer. You have a baseball ball that can damage a vehicle, or all balls can bounce into a streets which are major though fares on all sides which would cause cars to slam on their brakes and probably a few rear enders would happen. Football field markings have already shown up on proposals for the park. If the Viking could get away with it I'm sure they would require enough open space for football field markings for their tailgating. Most public parks that have ball fields of any type have fences to enclose them for safety reasons. Are we now going to give the Wilfs a reason to be able to fence off the park from the public?

[IllogicalJake]

Hating or loving football has nothing to do with the park. Same can be said for baseball, and soccer. You have a baseball ball that can damage a vehicle, or all balls can bounce into a streets which are major though fares on all sides which would cause cars to slam on their brakes and probably a few rear enders would happen. Football field markings have already shown up on proposals for the park. If the Viking could get away with it I'm sure they would require enough open space for football field markings for their tailgating. Most public parks that have ball fields of any type have fences to enclose them for safety reasons. Are we now going to give the Wilfs a reason to be able to fence off the park from the public?

Whoa there, cowboy. I don't think anyone is proposing developing a formal football field on the site, just that the open grass area can be used for pickup games.

[Wedgeguy]

Again I'm looking at the open space requirements of the Vikings. This will take up the center of the park space. Not much of a buffer along the sides for error on over throws. Not a lot of space for much else for those residents of the neighborhood to have amenities they they would probably prefer in a park. Why the Park Department looked at the possible mess and said NO!! Why I say when the Viking pay for all of the park upkeep and expenses they can do what ever they want. If not, give us a city park like Mear's and Rice where people can sit under trees that are not next to the streets, can sit and listen to a fountain, and can watch their kids on play ground equipment. I'd like to see a park designed for the community and not for the Vikings. and MSFC.

[grant1simons2]

There's no formal plan at all. The city just wants an open field, very similar to what they have in some of the cedar-riverside neighborhoods. Not a actual layout for soccer or football but the kids still play a game of pickup and make their own boundaries. In my head this is what I actually envision. http://youtu.be/mo5LvnnUR5o?list=UU8aG3 ... UQhSn9uVrw
This field is a bit larger but and has fences surrounding it but this design is what I think city planners want. Just an open field with room for activities

[grant1simons2]

Wedge did you read the documents I linked? There is something totally different going on right now and it very well could end up like Rice park or Mear but we don't know since no one has actually entered any projects or designs

[Wedgeguy]

I see open space for too many corporate events. Your theory is pure, but the reality of what already has been transpiring shows that they are looking for free or cheap space and the public is the one that get screwed out of the space for 80 days. That is just the sports, now add a few other big corporate events and more go away. It is like rolling a snow ball, the more you roll or give the bigger it gets or they take as time progresses. Remember how it was first just game weekend for football 16 to 24 with put up and tear down. Now we have the MSFC saying they want something like 80 days. Let them pay 100% of the upkeep then and I'll have no problem with it. If not, then NO to a corporate park on public land.

[ECtransplant]

a baseball ball

So, a baseball?

[go4guy]

Wedgeguy, have you ever played football? Unless you set up a field where the out of bounds is the sidewalk, you are not in danger of having the ball go onto the streets. There is plenty of room in a 1 block parcel for a football field and a huge buffer to allow normal sitting and walking space for everyone else to enjoy the park. Flag football does not take up a lot of space. And no, there will not be real football games on a regulation field on this site.

[Rich]

The primary design requirement is flexibility. The RFP insists that the commons “accommodate neighborhood-scaled weekly events like movies and small markets; daily rituals like dog walking, lunch seating, free play and family activities” and also be a “venue for concerts, ticketed/non-ticketed events, festivals, tournaments, cultural events” and so on.

Some version of Bryant Park is probably what we’ll get.

The RFP also states that the city will own the commons and will retain design control and approval power throughout the process. Also, incidentally, it says the city and county are working together on plans to narrow both Portland and Park to two lanes from 6th St to Washington.

[MNdible]

We may have already discussed this (it's a long thread), but with the elimination of the 5th Street exit, the crimping down of Park and Portland, and the redevelopment of the Armory, can the drive lanes flanking the LRT tracks be eliminated between the stadium and 5th Avenue?

Or at least the northern of the split lanes, which could be easily added to the park right of way? There may be some value in keeping the southern lane to maintain circulation and provide access to the Armory.

[mattaudio]

Starts here in the Armory thread.
https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13& ... 100#p53939

[David Greene]

I'm at the point of major optimism right now since it looks like there has been a lot of negotiating to make this an actual park place.

Unfortunately, you're misreading the language. The negotiation was among the board members to set the vision for the park. That has nothing to do with any renegotiation with the Vikings or the MSFA over terms of use.

[Drizzay]

I'm guessing they used the yard lines in the picture to show scale. Almost everyone can conceptualize just how big a football field is 120yrds x 53yrds (roughly).