DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mplsjaromir
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby mplsjaromir » January 8th, 2014, 2:53 pm

The park is a shadow subsidy for the Vikings.

SixOneTwo
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby SixOneTwo » January 8th, 2014, 3:20 pm

As a DTE resident I am very excited about the Ryan Development, and I frankly don't understand all of the hate. I feel like we need to get John in here to counteract the recent pessimism.

Everyone can agree this is a VAST improvement over the current landscape. And even if the park is not initially built as a world-class space rivaling Millennium Park, there are certainly opportunities in the future to enhance the space as private funds are raised.

Anyone who thought the Vikings/MSFA wouldn't be using part of this park for dozens of events a year was naive. We should encourage this type of programming; the main gripe with nearby Gold Medal Park is the lack of programming. Open park space next to the stadium is also a great compromise for those who whined about the stadium not being built in Arden Hills where it could be surrounded by parking lots for tailgating. If done right, our urban "tailgating" could be a a great experience, and will be unique/memorable aspect of game days at the new stadium. Without the park, the pregame experience would be virtually indistinguishable from the experience of disparate tailgating lots and the "Party of the Plaza" at the Metrodome.

The one criticism I find legitimate is that the stick apartments should not be built on the western 1/3. I agree. If they aren't willing to do something more ambitious with this space, they should wait. There are plenty of lots, some city-owned, in the Mill District where a 6-story stick apartment can be plopped down. Leaving that 1/3 open for the time being also allows the potential to fully maximize the park space if considerable private funds are raised down the road.

For anyone interested in learning more about this "complete dud" of a project, Ryan is hosting a meeting with the neighborhood at Open Book on Thursday, January 16 at 6:30 pm.
Last edited by SixOneTwo on January 8th, 2014, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twincitizen
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby twincitizen » January 8th, 2014, 4:12 pm

While an uninspiring six-story box bookending the park may be disappointing to some, I think it's being built as part of the first phase for a good reason.

If that 1/3 block were utilized as open space (even temporarily) and considered part of the park (despite being privately owned by Ryan), it would be much more difficult to develop it later on due to public opposition. You can imagine the ridiculous headlines now: "Luxurious Apartment Building Proposed for City Park" "Hipsters to Displace Open Space", etc.

The 1/3 block development has to be built out as part of phase one, and the park will be better for it (to say nothing of the apartment building screening the view of the jail and other LULUs from the park).

Didier
Capella Tower
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Didier » January 8th, 2014, 5:58 pm

An amphitheater would block the jail too. Or something.

mattaudio
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby mattaudio » January 8th, 2014, 7:33 pm

Or redeveloping the eastern third of the jail block, which is covered parking.

David Greene
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby David Greene » January 10th, 2014, 11:22 pm

I have to reluctantly agree with the negativity on the park. I had really high hopes for it but the more we're hearing, the less enthused I become. It's very disppointing that a large swath of it is going to be a flat field for the sake of 40 days a year.

An ampitheater would be perfect for this spot. Even little one-block Mears Park can manage a decent public performance space.

I'm not totally down on the idea of playing fields. Obvously baseball is problematic but the Mall in D.C. gets used by lots of people playing ultimate, soccer, what have you. Maybe that's a redeeming bit for the tailgate field.

I don't want to see "hills" for the sake of hills. I want something that will be attractive and more importantly, used.

MNdible
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby MNdible » January 11th, 2014, 12:09 pm

I'm not sure I understand the negativity about a big open space in the park. If you're planning on programming the space, having it wide open is going to make that a lot easier. Lot's of great park spaces have big open spaces. Bryant Square. The Great Lawn. Millenium Park. Yes, the Vikings will use it, but so will any other programmed event that takes place there.

I think this is absolutely the wrong location for athletic fields.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Wedgeguy » January 11th, 2014, 2:59 pm

We have the great lawn, it is called Gold Medal Park. A good urban park for residence is like Mears Park in St. Paul. It has a lot of trees for color and shade in the summer. A performance area, a dog park, a stream that you can sit down next to and put your feet in. Mears Park calls you to come and check it out. Something that Gold Medal Park does a lousy job of.

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Nathan
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Nathan » January 12th, 2014, 11:21 am

I go to Gold Medal Park every time in in that area, It definitely calls to me, while I think Mears is a little campy. I would like some more tree cover in DTE though, that's what would make that a better neighborhood, and it definitely doesn't seem like we'll be getting that :/

Didier
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Didier » January 12th, 2014, 12:29 pm

I've never understood the negativity toward Gold Medal Park. Maybe it doesn't have '80s tribute bands scheduled every other day, but it's easily one of the most picturesque areas downtown. It's a huge reason why Mill City is what it is, in my opinion.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Wedgeguy » January 12th, 2014, 1:34 pm

I've never understood the negativity toward Gold Medal Park. Maybe it doesn't have '80s tribute bands scheduled every other day, but it's easily one of the most picturesque areas downtown. It's a huge reason why Mill City is what it is, in my opinion.
I have no negativity for GMP, it is just there is little there that makes me want to stop there while walking the river. This past summer was my first trip up the spiral hill. How many years has the park been there that I've been by it, close to 100 times going to the Guthrie, biking along the river, walking back from the U. There is little there besides green grass that makes me say what's going on in here. There are really not real walking paths leading to anything other than the spiral hill. I love the open space, but there definitely could be more trees in the area. Small picnic areas, especially now with Izzy's next door.
On a scale of 1 to 10 it is lucky to be a 5-6 when it should be a 9-10 and always full of people who are wanting to enjoy the river area. Maybe that is the problem, there is too much close by that does actually draw people and makes them decide to go or do other things instead in the area.

xandrex
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby xandrex » January 13th, 2014, 11:18 am

I've never understood the negativity toward Gold Medal Park. Maybe it doesn't have '80s tribute bands scheduled every other day, but it's easily one of the most picturesque areas downtown. It's a huge reason why Mill City is what it is, in my opinion.
I don't really understand it either. I love the park. On many summer nights, a group of friends and I will stop by Izzy's to grab some ice cream, then hike up the spiral and take in the view. You can get a great panorama view of downtown, the mills, the river, and the U. Even the interstate looks pretty cool all lit up and from a distance. Its unique views and cool setting downtown are exactly what draw me to it.

David Greene
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby David Greene » January 13th, 2014, 11:44 am

My fear with the open space is that because it'll be used for tailgating it'll be full of worn grass, dirt patches and crabgrass. I'm not sure it will be better than a parking lot, really.

Mears Park is a little contrived but it works really well as a public space. I'm not sure the fake stream adds much but the performance space and places to sit and eat lunch are big draws.

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trkaiser
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby trkaiser » January 13th, 2014, 12:46 pm

That fake stream is my favorite thing in downtown St. Paul. Nothing like cooling the dogs, drinking a beer and listening to live music - even if the stream has a Camp Snoopy vibe.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby seanrichardryan » January 13th, 2014, 2:21 pm

Mears is also filled with gardens that area residents sign up to plant and maintain. It's very sweet.
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twincitizen
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby twincitizen » January 16th, 2014, 12:39 pm

I really enjoyed this short Strib piece about the Park Board being very skeptical about getting stuck paying for the ongoing operation and maintenance costs of The Yard (I still ****ing hate that name).
basic services could elevate the operations cost to $2 million a year, Wielinski and Vreeland said.
Even the comments section has some thoughtful responses both agreeing and disagreeing.

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/240390241.html

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woofner
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby woofner » January 16th, 2014, 1:54 pm

I'd be more sympathetic to the Park Board if a) they'd ever shown any interest whatsoever in solving the problem of the dearth of parks downtown and b) if there wasn't such a density of parks with services in Linden Hills. Why is this park an albatross but B.F. Nelson - immediately next to Boom Island and 4 blocks from St Anthony Park -- isn't?
"Who rescued whom!"

David Greene
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby David Greene » January 16th, 2014, 2:41 pm

Woofner FTW.

matt91486
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby matt91486 » January 16th, 2014, 11:25 pm

Sounds like we'll have some greater idea of the development possibilities of the air rights over the parking lot come February 4.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 75741.html

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Minneboy » January 17th, 2014, 6:13 am

Here's hoping for something significant and breathtaking.


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