North Loop Neighborhood

[twincitizen]

Any bets on whether this continues westward down 2nd St.?

Nope: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=100

[Chava]

I had the opportunity to drive aroud the old 'hood yesterday and it's totally different than it was even 10 years ago when I was living in the old Riverwalk apartments (Lindsay Brothers warehouse). The walkability is out of this world. Any bets on whether this continues westward down 2nd St.?

Possibly! Are we talking more infill along 2nd street up to Plymouth Ave, or bursting beyond Plymouth ave? I'm assuming that everything beyond Plymouth is zoned industrial?

Also, I think once the ground is broken at the parcel at 10th ave and N 2nd St things may feel more complete. Currently, everything kind of fizzles out around 8th ave. Like a bottle rocket dud.

[jet777]

They were removing a huge billboard structure from the roof at 6th ave n and 4th st yesterday, had the streets shut down. Anyone have a clue what's happening here, whether it's development or just fading billboard revenue?

[twincitizen]

Is is really necessary to have 394 connect directly with Washington Avenue? Are the entrance/exit that connect to 3rd St/4th St, respectively, not enough? It really seems like the exit to Washington should go away. 394 still exits to 4th St, and 2nd Ave is a one-way northbound that brings you to Washington in 30 seconds. There's even a dedicated left turn lane and plenty of storage for vehicles heading north/westbound on Washington. It all seems pretty redundant.

The exit to Washington creates a really unfriendly/unsafe situation at that intersection, with speeding cars coming right up (in)to the crosswalk at J.D. Hoyt's. I walked across the intersection with my retirement-aged parents last night and it was not pleasant at all. I've crossed it alone several times now, and have never felt safe.

In addition, if you eliminate the exit ramp, and shift the entrance ramp a bit further south on 3rd Ave, you could fit a decently-sized building facing Washington here.

http://goo.gl/maps/5mVGa

Quoting myself, since David Frank brought up pedestrian improvement to this intersection with regards to the hotel going into the former IPR building. It didn't get a ton of traction at the time, so maybe people have thoughts now? Click the google link for my proposal.

[mister.shoes]

Is is really necessary to have 394 connect directly with Washington Avenue? Are the entrance/exit that connect to 3rd St/4th St, respectively, not enough? It really seems like the exit to Washington should go away. 394 still exits to 4th St, and 2nd Ave is a one-way northbound that brings you to Washington in 30 seconds. There's even a dedicated left turn lane and plenty of storage for vehicles heading north/westbound on Washington. It all seems pretty redundant.

The exit to Washington creates a really unfriendly/unsafe situation at that intersection, with speeding cars coming right up (in)to the crosswalk at J.D. Hoyt's. I walked across the intersection with my retirement-aged parents last night and it was not pleasant at all. I've crossed it alone several times now, and have never felt safe.

In addition, if you eliminate the exit ramp, and shift the entrance ramp a bit further south on 3rd Ave, you could fit a decently-sized building facing Washington here.

http://goo.gl/maps/5mVGa

Quoting myself, since David Frank brought up pedestrian improvement to this intersection with regards to the hotel going into the former IPR building. It didn't get a ton of traction at the time, so maybe people have thoughts now? Click the google link for my proposal.

I remember you mentioning this idea a while back and really liked it. It's always stuck in my mind because it's the solution to one of the problems that plagued my tear-down-the-viaducts-and-regrid-the-North-Loop idea: with all the current 394 access ramps it's impossible to have 3rd/4th Streets intersect 3rd Ave properly. Move the ramps to the southwest side of 4th Street (and effectively terminate 394 under ramp C) and not only does your parcel facing Washington open up for development, but so does the back half of that block as well as the other half of the block occupied by ramp C.

[twincitizen]

As far as viaduct removal/replacement, I don't think a 3rd St connection is possible due to major private property impacts to Dock Street Flats. I think we missed that boat as far as a public street easement though that area. 4th St is certainly possible to connect, and it would look a lot like how 5th St navigates over the 394 trench, then over the RR trench & Northstar platform, with two separate bridges. The real question is if it is truly necessary or if Washington and 5th can handle the local traffic just fine. Again, in my scenario the viaducts go away completely. No connection to 3rd/4th off I-94 near Plymouth Ave as you indicated on your map. If the viaducts come down, Washington and 7th St will have to do the heavy lifting for traffic heading to and from I-94 North.

Regarding the 394 connections to Washington above, I do think the westbound entrance ramp has to come east of Ramp C, as I have shown, in order to serve the "4th Street Transit Center" under Ramp C. I don't believe that "transit center" is actually used for anything, but I still think it wise to have the entrance ramp where I have shown it, rather than west of Ramp C as you suggest.

[mattaudio]

Agreed - I can't imagine a situation where residents of the North Loop allow 3rd to become the way for motorists to get from downtown to 94. Mayyybe 4th, if it's a nice (multiway?) boulevard. But there seems to be excess capacity on 7th, especially if we could undo the 7th/Olson cluster at the same time as we build a Royalston LRT station area and rebuild Olson for Bottineau LRT. I could imagine a DC-style tunnel for 7th under Olson and the LRT, which would possibly get rid of the need for the awful Royalston jog to Border/Oak Lake.

[xandrex]

I'm rather okay with the entrance to 394 at Washington, if only because 1) it provides easier access from my apartment to the western suburbs than even taking a jog further into downtown and 2) it provides better access to the highway for the North Loop. When I've crashed with friends in that neighborhood and needed to go west the next morning, it was much more convenient than the other options.

Of course, I think we could significantly slim down the design. I imagine there could be a way to significantly slow traffic, narrow the ROW, and generally improve the area.

[Minneapolisite]

Turning east onto Washington from N 3rd I'm always keeping a close eye on right-turning traffic that has that "yield" sign which might as well be a green light. I am on a bike after all. Even so, it's my favorite corner of Downtown: there's actually a bit of diversity in its destinations which makes it the most interesting part of Downtown. They even have plain ole retail over there and it's local.

[grant1simons2]

I feel like we already talked about this but there's a boutique hotel planned for 300 Washington Ave. Beautiful buildings right on the corner... across from Deja Vu

[Chava]

SE? you sure? That's across the river.

[mamundsen]

I feel like we already talked about this but there's a boutique hotel planned for 300 Washington Ave SE. Beautiful buildings right on the corner... across from Deja Vu

Are you taking about the IPR building? There is a thread for that. https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=56

[Silophant]

300 Washington Ave SE.

What, at Coffman Memorial Union?

[grant1simons2]

Jackson building. And it's just 300 Washington Ave

[grant1simons2]

This one

[mamundsen]

It's the IPR titled thread that I linked up a few posts. Go read it

[Chava]

That's what I thought you meant. Gorgeous building. Will comment further on the other thread.

For now, I like the North Loop Neighborhood. Yes I do. <--on topic.

[mister.shoes]

As far as viaduct removal/replacement, I don't think a 3rd St connection is possible due to major private property impacts to Dock Street Flats. I think we missed that boat as far as a public street easement though that area.

I know we've moved on (repeatedly), but I did take a peek while driving around on Labor Day. Technically, the city could buy/take the land back and put the street through again, but it's clear that the land has been sold off.

[jet777]

Thanks for posting this photo- perfect vantage to illustrate where I think at a MINIMUM there needs to be pedestrian/bike access to get rid of the isolating feeling made by the rail trench. From this spot on 3rd street there is no easy way to the bike path even though you could throw a rock at it. Dock street development helped make access possible off Washington but moving southwest the existing viaduct pedestrian bridge takes you all the way to 2nd ave missing the bike path (it used to have a stairway they removed) or you have to go to the other side of the ballpark to get to it.

[grant1simons2]

Another parklet went in today in from of Martin Patrick 3

Parklet north loop by grant.simons, on Flickr