East End / Thresher Square / Trader Joes - 713 Washington Ave S

[LakeCharles]

Yeah, it's a weird legal/financial thing I don't understand, but Aldi Nord (which owns Trader Joe's) and Aldi Süd (which owns Aldi) have been financially and legally separate since 1966. So they aren't really the same company at all.

[HuskyGrad]

Not quite. The parent company of the company that runs the Aldi grocery stores in the US, is also the parent company of the company that now runs Trader Joe's...

Originally in Germany Aldi existing as one company. However, the company was split into two companies in 1966, with Theo Albrecht controlling ALDI Nord and his brother Karl controlling Aldi Süd. In the US, Aldi Süd operates Aldi, whereas ALDI Nord operates Trader Joes.

[PhilmerPhil]

Hopefully this clears things up: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... joe_s.html

[LakeCharles]

I think the wikipedia page gives a better explanation with less editorial asides wishing people would yell at her, but yeah, that's the gist of it. Also funny that she thinks that if only we just bagged our own groceries (which we do at the vast majority of our grocery stores) and paid for carts, everything would be dirt cheap.

[twincitizen]

Trader Joes couldn't be reached, while Sherman opts for "no comment": http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... loper.html

[grant1simons2]

CoW agenda: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 137184.pdf

[Silophant]

So... The skyway got scrapped, then? I thought that was a sure thing.

[topher hoefer]

super bummed about the skyway. I work right across Washington and it would be awesome to have an indoor connection from the mill district to the rest of the city. I also thought the grocery store was only interested if there was a connection?

I'm afraid this doesn't bode well for the parking garage block. If there is no skyway running through it, what else isn't happening there?

[Nathan]

I was hoping that the design would refine a little bit more than it has... BUT things I do enjoy. The recessed balconies with what looks like nice earthy wood paneling inside provides a nice simple contrast from the exterior materials. The majority of the building is one simple material which pays homage and respect to the two historic buildings on the block. The ground floor is tall and open on all sides. I think that the building actually completes the block nicely. It looks like the exterior material is a la Walker Library but not as shiny? that will be a cool contrast yet still brick like to the historic brick buildings. Negatively, it's a bit boring, a cornice or crown of some sort (even just on the tallest portion) might help it play into the older buildings as well. At least it's a little different than we've been seeing! Also, did I mention I love green?

[mattaudio]

Where was the skyway originally supposed to connect? Via the Zygilot across 3rd?

[twincitizen]

Across 3rd, into the MSFA ramp, which will connect to Wells Fargo, which will connect to the Haaf ramp, which connects to downtown

Wells Fargo will be connected to the Haaf ramp, will it not? Kinda have to assume that it will, otherwise the Wells Fargo development wouldn't be on the skyway system.

Here's something I spliced together comparing the preliminary site plan with the new one, sans skyway:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y-9P ... hicago.jpg
The quality isn't great, but the light green areas are Vestibule/Public skyway entrances in the old version. In the new plan, it's just a vestibule between the parking area and the store entrances on Chicago.

We have no idea what the skyway level would have looked like, but it's fair to say it would have wiped out a ton of 2nd-level units.

I guess, if you're Sherman, and Trader Joe's is willing to open without the skyway, why would you pay millions of dollars to build the connection across 3rd St, and waste tons of space on the 2nd level of this building? Yes, it would boost revenue at the store, and be an amenity to residents, but it would come at great cost to this particular development to provide an amenity for the greater neighborhood. The difference now is you'll have to cross 3rd street to the MSFA ramp to enter the skyway system.

Kind of a bummer for downtown residents who were hoping to go to Trader Joe's without going outside, and for Mill District residents who could have entered the system at Washington & Chicago. Now they have to walk another block (or two, depending on how one is able to enter the MSFA ramp)

[MNdible]

Yep, quite certain that the WF plans showed the connection to the Haaf ramp. That said, the connection from the Haaf ramp to the rest of downtown is a bit tenuous, at best. You either need to go through the strange tunnels into City Hall, and then the Hennepin County Government Center, before popping back up to the skyway level, or you go through the jail block, and then the not-so-good connection through the Government Center ramp.

In any case, I supsect that the new MSFA ramp just wasn't interested in accommodating a skyway connection. It would mess up the layout of a whole level of parking, all for the benefit of a single block that's being developed by somebody else (I don't see the city ever allowing a skyway over Washington Avenue in the Mill District). I'm not anti-skyway by any means, but I think that losing this connection isn't something to cry over.

[mister.shoes]

Here's something I spliced together comparing the preliminary site plan with the new one, sans skyway:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y-9P ... hicago.jpg

That's very helpful. I'm reading this as a larger space for retail (note that the new plan actually says "GROCERY SALES FLOOR" and "BEER/WINE" and there's still a third retail bay to the west), far more activated Chicago Ave frontage (even if it's private residential space), and far less overall dead frontage (just a short section on 3rd). The only real downside with the street level is the short section on 3rd that's going to be open to surface parking next to the Thresher Square buildings. I quite like this project overall.

[mattaudio]

Yes, that's my take as well. This is really an improvement in terms of activating more of the sidewalk frontage.

Edit: Never mind, I see the retail along 3rd is disappearing in the most recent plan. Though 3rd is and will continue to be a barren, windswept corridor even as three blockfaces develop to the south.

[twincitizen]

Not every street can be, or should be a retail street. 3rd is the quintessential "back street" and should be used as such. This development, plus the retail and lobby space in the future MSFA ramp development are the very earliest stages of Chicago Ave becoming a retail/commercial corridor (in downtown).

The Wells Fargo development is going to have commercial space on 4th St, facing the park. I think it will be enough of a challenge to lease all of that space, not to mention the space in the residential development on the western 1/3 of the Commons park block between 5th and Portland. That's a ton of new retail space in an area that is still establishing itself. Some of it could sit vacant for quite a while, awaiting future residential development to create that demand. I won't lament the loss of a retail space on 3rd St for one second.

On the topic of establishing Chicago as a new commercial corridor in DTE, development of this Zygi-owned lot could/should have retail space as well: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.975684, ... UGUgsA!2e0

EDIT: On second-thought, the Chicago commercial corridor is likely to be a short one, running just 3 blocks from 2nd (Kindee Thai) to 4th (MSFA ramp development). This new "corridor" will then wrap around the MSFA ramp and continue along 4th in the WF buildings. As for Chicago Ave, heading southbound between 4th and 9th Streets, the presence of the stadium & LRT platform barren plazas, superstroad 6th St, and then several blocks of HCMC seem to be an enormous barrier to Chicago Ave ever becoming a consistent commercial corridor throughout the city.

EDIT2: Strib's take: http://www.startribune.com/blogs/290936041.html

[nickmgray]

I like how the development completes the block. It would be nice if the design of the building could be broken up a little in some way, but it's 1000 times better than what's there now - nothing.

I think the building's retail will be a very good asset to the neighborhood. The new Wells Fargo buildings will have thousands of employees who will be spending a lot of time and money in the neighborhood throughout the work week. Yes, they will technically be connected to the downtown core though the skyway system, but there's really not a lot of retail/food options on this end of downtown.

[bapster2006]

I agree that it's purely my aesthetic preference, but I'd like to see a taller section over the grocery at Chicago and Washington and then another taller section next to the Thresher Building, with the remainder being more lowrise. I simply don't like when buildings are walls. For this reason I wish the Latitude 45 building had a taller section right at Third Ave and Washington and then the rest was shorter.

[Lancestar2]

...well last I heard the unnamed grocery retailer required a skyway connection. Considering no skyway connection is now in the plan what makes everybody so sure Trader Joe's is going to open here? Considering they have still refused to comment might suggest they have yet to make a decision or commitment either way. Very disappointing to see no skyway connection as it would have been a nice amenity for all the new residents. Plus if this project is allowed to be built without a commitment from Trader Joe's then this project will surly become a complete dud. If Trader Joe is willing to continue to open a store then I guess it might be a great benefit to the community skyway or not..

[EOst]

The application specifically says that the development will include a grocery store with a beer/wine component. If it isn't Trader Joe's, it'll be something similar.

[twincitizen]

Going before Committee of the Whole (CoW) on 4/2: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 139350.pdf