Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[spectre000]

Interesting article today about development surrounding the site of the new stadium:
http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... page=2&c=y

People have very short memories. Go back ten years and compare then with today. Downtown Minneapolis has filled in so many parking lots it's amazing. There is a significant amount remaining (particularly in the inner core). But its come a long way.

[dmdhashw]

Interesting article today about development surrounding the site of the new stadium:
http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... page=2&c=y

People have very short memories. Go back ten years and compare then with today. Downtown Minneapolis has filled in so many parking lots it's amazing. There is a significant amount remaining (particularly in the inner core). But its come a long way.

I remember when the Mill District was nothing but blacktop. Did anyone go to the Grand Prix of Minnesota?

[min-chi-cbus]

Interesting article today about development surrounding the site of the new stadium:
http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... page=2&c=y

People have very short memories. Go back ten years and compare then with today. Downtown Minneapolis has filled in so many parking lots it's amazing. There is a significant amount remaining (particularly in the inner core). But its come a long way.

I remember when the Mill District was nothing but blacktop. Did anyone go to the Grand Prix of Minnesota?

The "Children's Hospital Grand Prix", or something? I did!

[mulad]

I appreciated that the article mentioned that there was a parking lot moratorium starting in 1999, and that minimum parking requirements were eliminated in 2009.

I do think things have been getting a bit better, but the demand for parking (or at least the perception of demand for parking) has continued to cause buildings to get torn down across the city. Sure, lots have been getting filled in along Washington Avenue near the Metrodome, but there could easily be just as many new spots created over by TCF Stadium (I'm hoping the University has only been trying to keep the status quo with parking, but I'm kind of doubtful).

Anyway, it just seems like a giant game of whack-a-mole...

[Didier]

I'm pretty sure there is some sort of regulation around TCF Bank Stadium that prevents existing buildings from turning into parking. Right after the stadium was built some neighboring businesses complained because nobody came during games and they weren't allowed to rent parking spaces to fans. Somebody can correct me, but I believe there are regulations in place to prevent new lots in that area.

Maybe that doesn't affect the university, but from what I can tell the school has been building more high-tech science buildings around the stadium than new parking lots.

[Rich]

Mark Wilf talked stadium a bit on KFAN this morning. He said the Vikings "along with the city and state" will pick an architect within 60 days. He said tailgating areas will be "limited". He said there will be a 10 to 12 acre plaza with more features than the current plaza. He also indicated that there will be pregame attractions inside the building. Finally he said that when you're inside the building you'll know you're in Minneapolis - which suggests some sort of window revealing the skyline. No other details were discussed.

[mulad]

10 to 12 acres? Isn't that like 3 downtown-sized blocks? Depends on how it's all organized, I guess, but that seems pretty huge.

[reeckman]

There are 640 acres per square mile. Downtown there are 13 blocks per mile. One block is (1/13)^2 = 1/169 square miles. So one block is 640/169 = 3.8 acres. 3 blocks is 11.36 acres.

Assuming the cobblestone area between the light rail station and the dome entrance are included in this 10-12 acre plaza, I think a 1 x 3 block total area is about right, so long as the parking lots are surrounded by linear park, landscaping, flowers, and cobblestone or faux cobblestone concrete for a space "almost too attractive to tailgate on."

I don't think that the tailgating plaza should be broken up to include the block north of the light rail stop, the way some maps show it. It should be continuous space surrounded by a complete community.

[seanrichardryan]

I don't think the Star & Tribune building should come down for a 'game-day' plaza.

[Avian]

Actually, Minneapolis is built upon the model of 16 blocks per mile, or blocks of 330' x 330'. That means the street-to-street centerlines. Since the standard street is 30' wide, each block is typically 300' x 300'. In South Minneapolis, the North/South blocks are twice the standard length of the East/West streets.

This is the general rule. There are obviously lots of variations.

[min-chi-cbus]

10 to 12 acres? Isn't that like 3 downtown-sized blocks? Depends on how it's all organized, I guess, but that seems pretty huge.

I don't want more than 1/1.5 blocks dedicated to this plaza! That's too much (potentially) valuable land going towards a public entity that would rarely be used if designed incorrectly. Now, if that 3-block park was done right it could be the new epicenter of neighborhood development downtown and could link DTE with DTW and create a sense of unity in downtown Minneapolis. That's a long shot I think......but I'm hoping for SOMETHING that has functionality outside of football season.

[min-chi-cbus]

Actually, Minneapolis is built upon the model of 16 blocks per mile, or blocks of 330' x 330'. That means the street-to-street centerlines. Since the standard street is 30' wide, each block is typically 300' x 300'. In South Minneapolis, the North/South blocks are twice the standard length of the East/West streets.

This is the general rule. There are obviously lots of variations.

I'm not sure which blocks you're referring to (downtown blocks are square, city blocks are rectangle), but 8 rectangular neighborhood blocks the long way is 1 mile, or 16 half blocks (it's exactly 1 mile from 46th St to 38th St). Downtown blocks APPEAR to be 1.5-2.0 half blocks wide, squared.

[reeckman]

Avian, I was referring to downtown specifically in the grid system the stadium is in. You can verify by google mapping yourself 13 blocks from say 4th and Nicollet to Portland and Grant. but here's the reference I used:

Source: Hudson's Dictionary of Minneapolis (1906) states:
In downtown, there are 13 ordinary blocks to the mile. South of 24th St the north-south blocks are longer, running 8 to the mile and east-west blocks are half as long, 16 to the mile.
Review of neighborhood maps with a scale of 1.25 inches = 1000 feet confirms this measurement.

[MNdible]

That must be an approximation, since 13 isn't divisible into 5280. I always understood downtown blocks to be 400' square (which is approximately 13 blocks per mile).

[seanrichardryan]

Sooooo, 10-13 acres at the stadium site is where?

[seanrichardryan]

My Google maps guesstimate is around 4 acres per block in that area, which is about 3 horrifying blocks of emptiness.

[Konante]

My Google maps guesstimate is around 4 acres per block in that area, which is about 3 horrifying blocks of emptiness.

If the numbers being discussed are correct let's hope they're referring to total acreage of a few semi-connected areas put together and not one big plaza.

[Nathan]

I don't think the Star & Tribune building should come down for a 'game-day' plaza.

AGREED!!! This is the most important thing. The 40's Strib building is AMAZING, and could be converted into something great.

[spearson]

Looking at an overhead shot from a pdf on the vikings website, it's probably going to be the block of the LRT station, then the block across 4th, then from there the partial block across chicago, and then the partial block across norm mcgrew pl.

Either way, open public space > empty surface lots.

I highly doubt this stadium is going to bring all kinds of crazy new development to the area, but hopefully it will result in friendlier open space.

[Rich]

Here's a link to Wilf's remarks, which begin at the 35:20 mark. He describes a "big plaza experience" and says "10 to 12 acre space in front of the building".

http://www.kfan.com/player/?station=KFX ... d=22303962