Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[mplsjaromir]

An ownership group as inept and tone deaf as the Wilf's, they will certainly find creative ways to screw this up. (Christan Ponder, Really?)

To me the stadium renderings looks like a giant pole-barn that was assembled on LSD. The stadium does nothing to address the neighborhood in any meaningful way. I would as far to say it is hostile to the surrounding area. Target Field is the poster child of good sporting venue placement, I think that the Vikings Stadium will be the poster child for bad sporting venue placement.

Not one moment during this entire saga of Vikings Stadium has given me any pride in Minnesota or Minneapolis. Not one clever or inventive idea has been presented. Lots of bad ideas, bullying and ultimatums. This stadium is truly a sad piece.

[min-chi-cbus]

I tend to agree, but I'm blindly hoping that the rendering is "open to interpretation" and the final result ends up a magnificent piece of modern art. I think I'm in for a big let-down....

[JMS9]

An ownership group as inept and tone deaf as the Wilf's, they will certainly find creative ways to screw this up. (Christan Ponder, Really?)

The Wilfs had ZERO to do with that. Owners sign paychecks. That's it. GM's draft players and coaches coach them. Your ire towards Ponder falls on the lap of Rick Spielman, not the Wilfs.

[m b p]

I too wasn't sold by the images presented. However, this picture, of the model, sold me completely.



Granted... I'm not sure who, if anyone, would be looking at the built stadium from that angle...

[Didier]

I'm not sure what world you guys are coming from in which 80,000-seat stadiums blend in seamlessly with residential neighborhoods.

[John]

Despite the naysayers, I predict this will be a beautiful structure and iconic landmark of the city. Can't wait fo construction to begin!

[nate]

Despite the naysayers, I predict this will be a beautiful structure and iconic landmark of the city. Can't wait fo construction to begin!

I think I agree. The key is always in the execution of the concept, but the renderings we've seen so far show a unique and beautiful structure. I like it better than just about any other pro football stadium, especially of the most recent crop (New York, Dallas, Detroit, Indianapolis)

[mullen]

i don't know of a pro football stadium that blend into a neighborhood. they're mega structures. you'll be able to clearly see the vikes new stadium from the stone arch bridge. it's so much taller and it's footprint is so much larger than the metrodome. the view from the 35w bridge is already awesome but having this futuristic structure sitting there anchoring east downtown will be a thrill.

love the design love the impact. people either love it or hate it. i suspect the first time we see those huge glass doors swing open to the city we'll be in awe.

[John]

^^^Good comments. When I think about the stadium site, there isn't very much built context around it anyways. The idea it needs to blend in with the area surrounding it is much ado about nothing. To the east are freeways, to the west a sea of parking lots, to the north and south wide roads separate it from a few immemorable structures. It's really a rather isolated spot. Perfect place to build something unique and exciting.

[moda253]

The Vikings have just been named as one of the top 5 most trusted teams in the NFL. And while I think they could improve in some ways I dont' think I would label them as inept or clueless.

How do you build something that interacts with HCMC and the other surrounding buildings all of which are nondescript save for the facade of the strib? -Which is going away. I suppose it could also be a bland concrete structure and people would be thrilled with that right? downtown east actually needs something to define the area moreso than it needs to blend in with whatever it is that's there already. If we are truly wanting to see development happen in the area then why couldn't that design follow the design of the stadium? Over on washington and northward we already see development using mixed up textures to present modern interesting architecture. I think that although the stadium makes more use of angles which you find in the Mcnamara Alumni Center and the Minneapolis library.

There IS reason behind the look and shape that it is.

[Didier]

A StarTribune article today says the team is starting to find areas to cut corners to keep the stadium under budget. Some of it is things like the 400 space parking ramp, but one of the potential downsizes is the height of the glass doors.

[writruth]

Here's an opportunity for the Wilfs to do a world of good for the image of themselves and the Vikings organization by ponying up enough money to cover the overages on the signature doors and other significant design elements. The Wilfs implied the elimination of a retractable roof would save enough money for the remaining signature design elements and now, before the first shovel of dirt is turned, they are already reneging on major selling points promised while they were pitching their stadium deal.

On the opposite end of downtown, the Pohlads dug into their pockets to cover the cost overruns during construction of Target Field when rising costs threatened to scrap the connective bridge from the ballpark to 1st Avenue and the landscaping surrounding the building.

The Wilfs should be delighted to pay for the design elements especially since it's very likely the team may not have to kick in a single dollar of it's $477 million portion - after deducting the $50 million NFL grant, the the $150 million NFL no interest loan, the $100 million in seat license fees paid for by ticket buyers and at least $200 million in naming rights (over 30 years). The truth is the Wilfs really have very little personal financial skin in the game.

[mullen]

yes i think this is very likely. the article indicates the team specifically doesn't want to cut the height of those front doors. i'd rather another parking ramp and skyway be cut vs. the retractable feature they've been talking up for a couple years.

this is the cost of delaying passing this legislation. because of the delay labor and materials costs have increased from the recession period when the stadium discussion heated up. also interesting a lot of skilled trades people simply moved away or left the business entirely. in any event it's the team's responsibility for more bells and whistles.

[John]

I get concerned when I hear the statement "cutting corners" in a project because that usually means a design revision that leads towards mediocrity. That would be a big loss for our community. The Wilfs will need to step up to the plate to avoid this. They certainly have the financial capability to do so. What I'm not quite so sure about is their moral and ethical ability to do the right thing. We will see.

[writruth]

Well said, John.

[talindsay]

This helps us to see just how great and community-aware the Pohlads were on the Twins ballpark. The Pohlads get a lot of bad press, but if the Wilfs turn out half as good as the Pohlads this stadium will turn out better than I fear.

[Didier]

Some of the rhetoric on this board (and elsewhere) gets thrown around so much that it loses its meaning. We get it: The Pohlads are great, down-to-earth, well-meaning Minnesotans while the Wilfs are bastardly Jewish businessmen from New Jersey. But slow down for a second.

• The Vikings stadium has a budget of $975 million. Mortensen, which is managing the construction, has been receiving higher bids than expected from contractors. The Wilf family has nothing to do with this. The Wilfs have not taken money off the table.

• It's quite obvious that yesterday's news was posturing. Yes, the stadium might be over budget, and some corners might have to be cut. This information is clearly designed to set the bar low so that it can be exceeded.

• Yesterday's news in no way indicates whether the Wilfs will or will not spend more than budgeted on the stadium. It would be wholly irresponsible for them to commit extra money until the final costs are known. The final costs are being determined now.

• The Wilfs' share of the new Vikings stadium is almost the entire cost of Target Field. The Vikings stadium will be almost double the cost of Target Field. That matters.

• The Pohlads' contribution to Target Field was not an out-of-pocket gift to the city. The Pohlads' contribution came from the millions of dollars the team earns by selling expensive tickets, concessions and naming rights at Target Field and from selling TV rights. It's not fundamentally different from the Wilfs' contribution.

• Personal seat licenses were sold to help build Target Field. The total revenue from Target Field PSLs was less than the Vikings' PSLs because the demand is drastically different.

• The extra money the Pohlads put into Target Field was not out of unbridled civic pride. It was because the owners saw value in improving the game-day experience at Target Field, which paid off in the ability to sell more tickets at higher prices. The Vikings will surely make the same determination.

• The Pohlads probably made half their extra investment back this season when they divested in the Twins' payroll and the team lost 90+ games for the third consecutive season.

I detect several reasons why people are frustrated with the whole process:
• Zygi Wilf is not charismatic
• The cost of the Vikings stadium is double that of Target Field
• The public funding mechanism is totally flawed
• Much of the Wilfs' investment into the new stadium is coming from expected revenue from the new stadium rather than from their current capital (gasp)
• The Wilfs haven't agreed to pay more than the half-billion they are already committed to the stadium, even though the final cost is not yet known
• The Wilfs are from out-of-town

Clearly there is some unfair bias involved.

When you take a step back, you realize that the situations really aren't all that different except for the fact that the Vikings stadium is considerably more expensive than Target Field and the Wilfs are from out of town. Its time we accept that Minneapolis did what it had to do in order to keep both the Twins and the Vikings in town, the costs of keeping each team are determined by the market for each the respective teams, and the Pohlads are savvy businessmen, just like the Wilfs.

[mplsjaromir]

Correct if I'm wrong, but the only savvy thing Zygi Wilf has ever done is being born into a wealthy family. The same could be said of the Pohlad sons. Controlling profitable real estate one's ancestors purchased does not make one particularly astute.

[Viktor Vaughn]

Maybe you detect frustration with the whole process because most residents of this state did not want to succumb to this stadium blackmail. Maybe some of us are frustrated because we're taxing poor people who can barely makes ends meet to pad the net worth of one family by a few hundred million dollars. Maybe we're pissed that we elected a Governor who campaigned on leveling the economic playing field, and then once in office made it his top priority to pass a law which effectively redistributes wealth from the rest of us to a very rich family. Maybe we don't trust the Wilf's because they came here and wrote a bunch campaign checks to bribe our politicians and threatened the fans in order to get their taxpayer funded stadium. Maybe we're frustrated because Minneapolis had a charter amendment to defend against precisely this type corruption, a mayor who campaigned against stadium subsidies, and a majority on the city council opposed to the idea - yet it was rammed through anyway.

Maybe we're frustrated that even though the stadium is owned by the public, lucrative revenue such as naming rights was given to the Wilf's, so the stadium essentially costs them nothing. And who wouldn't be frustrated with this level of PSL's in the "People's Stadium."

As it turns out, it is a bit frustrating to admit our priorities are so fucked we can find the money for this while cutting nutrition programs for women and children. And then we try to remember it's those poor people who are lazy and entitled. Just don't call a "job creator" living off his inheritance while asking for millions of government funds entitled...

Sorry to dredge this all back up, but I was set off by Kingkros' comment, which was as tonedeaf as when Lester Bagley lamented the other day that the "budget is only $975 million."



How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... rs/309448/

[nordeast homer]

Someone cue the calliope, we're starting the merry-go-round again.