Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[JMS9]

Miami suffers from the same problem as Los Angeles does, and that's that nobody is from there. They're all transplants. Florida is made up of people from Boston, New York, Philly and NE corridor. That's why whenever the Patriots/Jets/Giants or Yankees/Red Sox come to Miami (or Tampa) that's when they sell-out. Also why Los Angeles will never get a team. Or at least why football never made it there. Plus, L.A. gets the best TV match-ups every week. Think they want to give up Denver vs New England in favor of the L.A. Jaguars vs the Cleveland Browns?

[BigIdeasGuy]

Miami suffers from the same problem as Los Angeles does, and that's that nobody is from there. They're all transplants. Florida is made up of people from Boston, New York, Philly and NE corridor. That's why whenever the Patriots/Jets/Giants or Yankees/Red Sox come to Miami (or Tampa) that's when they sell-out. Also why Los Angeles will never get a team. Or at least why football never made it there. Plus, L.A. gets the best TV match-ups every week. Think they want to give up Denver vs New England in favor of the L.A. Jaguars vs the Cleveland Browns?

You are right on about the LA/Miami no one being from there problem but I have to disagree on the NFL in L.A. for a couple of reasons. One being that there are enough people in L.A. to sell out Farmer Field at 72,000 no matter what, it's the second largest metropolitan area in the U.S. they can find 72,000 people to buy tickets every week. Second while a team might move from a unsexy, unglamorous market like Jacksonville, L.A. is arguably the sexiest, glamorous market out there. So while the L.A. Jaguars vs the Cleveland Browns sounds terrible the L.A. (Insert much cooler team name here) vs. the San Francisco 49ers sound infinitely much better.

[Viktor Vaughn]

I'm completely floored that contributing $150M of city sales taxes to a stadium w/o a referendum would violate the charter amendment that prohibits contributing more than $10M of city funds to a stadium w/o a referendum. But that's what a judge ruled.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 35871.html

Please believe I'm not trying to re-litigate this. I know this doesn't change anything as the stadium legislation overruled the charter amendment. But still, let's acknowledge how the lies necessary to pass these subsidies undermined public trust in our institutions. When elected leaders blatantly lie about easily understood facts, they promote cynicism and the type of anti-government fervor that has pitted us against each other. Rybak said we could hold him accountable in his re-election, which he didn't seek. The city attorney did a disservice to her profession by bowing to political pressure to issue an objectively false oral legal opinion which she refused to put in writing, for obvious reasons.

The first comment to the Star Tribune article received overwhelmingly lopsided support for accusing the Star Tribune of only calling a spade a spade after the damage was done, and "When the stadium issue was still in the offing, all the Star Tribuen could do is cheeerlead from its Editorial page.[sic]"

I realize many here are willing to call the deal "imperfect" and move on. Yet we're reaching a tipping point in this country where facts are regarded as subjective and politicians can blatantly lie without consequence when it suits their purpose. This undermines our very democracy, so it's important to eventually set the record straight. Otherwise, what we're left with is not much better than, "we've always been at war with Eurasia, ignorance is strength, and war is peace."

[Didier]

I think most everyone is in agreement that this whole thing was a mess and builds upon what is already a terrible precedent of subsidizing sports stadiums.

That said, I think there is a tendency in politics to want things both ways. When we agree we want the popular opinion to rule the day, and when we disagree we want our elected officials to stand up and say the popular opinion is wrong. In the case of this Vikings stadium, the people of Minneapolis voted for a mayor and seven city council members who ultimately believed that this stadium was important enough to exploit this loophole.

It's a highly unpopular decision, and constituents have every right to be mad and to vote out those who supported the stadium plan. But I just think this is how democracy is supposed to work. Can you imagine a country in which every decision was based upon the popular opinion?

[Wedgeguy]

Target center is refurbishing, Target Field is less than 5 years old, Vikings is new, and Excel will be refurbishing also. So maybe in 15-20 years we will know the answer to that question. Then again they are all going to come do for upgrades within a few years of each other again.

[Viktor Vaughn]

...I think there is a tendency in politics to want things both ways. When we agree we want the popular opinion to rule the day, and when we disagree we want our elected officials to stand up and say the popular opinion is wrong.

Fair point.

In the case of this Vikings stadium, the people of Minneapolis voted for a mayor and seven city council members who ultimately believed that this stadium was important enough to exploit this loophole.

There was no loophole to exploit. They blatantly lied to their constituency to get around the charter amendment. This is not about running government by representative democracy vs direct democracy by referendum.

[Didier]

Target center is refurbishing, Target Field is less than 5 years old, Vikings is new, and Excel will be refurbishing also. So maybe in 15-20 years we will know the answer to that question. Then again they are all going to come do for upgrades within a few years of each other again.

I guess I have no idea what you're talking about here.

[Nick]

Well every few years Microsoft moves all the tabs around in Excel and discontinues support for an older version, so you have to upgrade.

[Wedgeguy]

That would be small upgrade that would depend on the use. For hockey only, the Wild pay. If it is software that for the advertising boards, building HVAC then it can be split among the users. That should already be figured into the buildings operating budget from year to year for future improvements.

[spearson]

Well every few years Microsoft moves all the tabs around in Excel and discontinues support for an older version, so you have to upgrade.

I see what you did there...

[mullen]

god i cant wait for the shovels to hit the dirt. please stop bitching about the stadium approval process. it must consume your lives this awful stadium is going to ruin everything!

the people paying for all of these awful horrible sports venues are people like my brother and his wife, who drive to downtown mpls from the 'burbs on a weekend evening for dinner and a show. out-of-towners attending conventions. etc etc etc

rise stadium rise!!!

[Rich]

It keeps rolling forward. Guaranteed maximum price is agreed to. No significant design changes necessary. Vikings close on financing Friday. Construction materials can then be ordered. And the state will launch its bond sale. Excavation begins Monday. Ceremonial groundbreaking in a couple weeks.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 99121.html

[lordmoke]

Vikings raising their stake by $41.4M to keep original features intact, no cuts:
http://www.startribune.com/business/233001331.html

[moda253]

I was critical of Wilf that he wouldn't do this but I was obviously way premature to make those statements. I'm very happy to see this happen!

[PhilmerPhil]

Aw shucks, that Wilf is such a stand up guy!

[mattaudio]

I put the initial number into my "sketchiness meter" dynamic dashboard today, and it appears to have reduced the sketch index from an 80 down to a 77. Screenshot update will come once I am able to do some more validation.

[trkaiser]

Hahaha - just great, Matt. Keep the updates coming...

[kregger22]

I for one value the hard science going into the sketchiness of the Vikings Stadium situation.

[uptowncarag]

There is now an apparant backlash about imported steel. Who are these clowns. Remember the turf at Target Field? It was Colorado bluegrass and not from Minnesota. It is called capitalism. I would never buy an American car but that is for obvious reasons.

[Wedgeguy]

Hate to remind you that a good portion of the foreign cars are built here in the US of A. Better to your research before you buy your Toyota that is built here in the US of A!