Xcel Energy HQ - 401 Nicollet

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Lancestar2

Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Lancestar2 » June 21st, 2012, 11:51 am

Here is the Central library's 2nd floor plan:



I only see a few options for a skyway connection to the library (assuming no major renovations). One is on the south side of the building to the left of the Pohlad auditorium, and it would connect across 4th St, I'd guess parallel to the alley between the parking ramp and the existing Xcel HQ. The barrier to that construction is presumably the layout of the Xcel building.

Another is on the north side of the building next to the Friends of the Library room. I hope that doesn't happen because I favor the Nicollet Hotel block for a downtown park, but I could see it being designed with some sort of transit facility that a skyway could connect to.

The third possibility that I see is on the east side of the building next to the Doty boardroom. It could connect to a future structure on the block to the east (the Ritz block I believe) but it would be an insult to aesthetics (not that that has stopped anyone from building a skyway in the past).

Thanks for the information, I think a skyway from the south would be the best option myself as the North will eventually be a park so I doubt there will be a need for a connection there. Also a skyway from the east would damage the aesthetics to much in my opinion also I though that space was going to be mostly park anyways. Also with that option from the south the traffic goes right past the restrooms and the escalators to the 1st floor! Which may make a 1st floor libary only entrance work too. You wouldn't happen to have a layout of the Excel building too would you :)

Also Mullen I'm sorry you dislike skyways so much, however in the summer heat, winter cold, rain, and blizzards having a skyway makes downtown work. Also many other cities have tunnel or skyway networks that make walking more friendly than street level. I think they are the wave of the future!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyway#Lis ... le_systems

Did you know that Dallas has a entire walkway system!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dalla ... etwork.jpg

I would like to get your opinion on that system as well do you think that having such a network hurts there city as well? Also if it works for them because they are a larger metro area does that mean that Minneapolis should "suffer" until it develops before it can create the benefits of a sheltered walkway? Also if no sheltered walkway is to exist until a metro area can increase it's population then why would people select that location?

For me personally I would never have picked Minneapolis to live if it wasn't for the skyway network. Instead I would have picked a suburb where I could have drove from place to place in my comfortable climate controlled car :) dispite the gas prices places like Apple Valley where everything is bunched up in a tight retail district it still could be rather affordable as long as you work close to where you live which could have been an option for me. If you were to shut down the skyway network the city would have a huge decrease in population and residency.

not to get off topic we don't need a good street level sidwalk system! we just need a few good walkways for example Nicollet mall, Hennepin ave and maybe Washington ave could be a great walkway area going east and west! Also maybe even a few other major nice street walkways the rest can remain a walkway desert :lol: The skyways have so much more added value and they are so FUN to walk! If it was up to me I would REQUIRE every building downtown over 4 floors to have a 2nd floor layout that could accommodation a future skyway network!

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Silophant » June 21st, 2012, 5:51 pm

I don't have an actual layout of the second floor of the Xcel building, but I drew a (very, very rough) sketch and attached it here:
X.png
In this picture, the yellow area is the mezzanine area, where the HR department has their cubicles, the grey area is the cooling plant, and the blue area is all open to the lobby below. Honestly, I think the best chance for a skyway to the library is for the parking ramp and surface lot behind the building to get redeveloped so it can angle in from there, because I don't see it going through Xcel.
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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Wedgeguy » June 21st, 2012, 6:26 pm

All building need to have better designs for thier second floors to encourage stair and escalators down to the street. This is where you money makers are for your retail. Then these areas can better support you businesses during the whole day and not just the morning into the office, the noon lunchbreak, and as most now are closed by then you people on the way out of the building. Just my opinion.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby MSPtoMKE » June 21st, 2012, 10:18 pm

I think the old forum had a "Minneapolis Skyway System" thread, perhaps we should start one here?
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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby FISHMANPET » June 21st, 2012, 11:50 pm

For me personally I would never have picked Minneapolis to live if it wasn't for the skyway network. Instead I would have picked a suburb where I could have drove from place to place in my comfortable climate controlled car :) dispite the gas prices places like Apple Valley where everything is bunched up in a tight retail district it still could be rather affordable as long as you work close to where you live which could have been an option for me. If you were to shut down the skyway network the city would have a huge decrease in population and residency.

not to get off topic we don't need a good street level sidwalk system! we just need a few good walkways for example Nicollet mall, Hennepin ave and maybe Washington ave could be a great walkway area going east and west! Also maybe even a few other major nice street walkways the rest can remain a walkway desert :lol: The skyways have so much more added value and they are so FUN to walk! If it was up to me I would REQUIRE every building downtown over 4 floors to have a 2nd floor layout that could accommodation a future skyway network!
Wow, you're so wrong about urban neighborhoods it's not even funny.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Nick » June 22nd, 2012, 7:00 am

That whole thing...
Wow, you're so wrong about urban neighborhoods it's not even funny.
You can block him by clicking his username and clicking "Add foe".
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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 22nd, 2012, 7:45 am

That whole thing...
Wow, you're so wrong about urban neighborhoods it's not even funny.
You can block him by clicking his username and clicking "Add foe".
Very mature, fellas!

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Konante » June 22nd, 2012, 8:57 am

For me personally I would never have picked Minneapolis to live if it wasn't for the skyway network. Instead I would have picked a suburb where I could have drove from place to place in my comfortable climate controlled car :) dispite the gas prices places like Apple Valley where everything is bunched up in a tight retail district it still could be rather affordable as long as you work close to where you live which could have been an option for me. If you were to shut down the skyway network the city would have a huge decrease in population and residency.
This made me gag. You are not built for urban living and cities are not and should not be designed for people like you. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

I, for one, am glad the new HQ won't have a skyway. I acknowledge their benefits but the net effect is negative.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Nick » June 22nd, 2012, 9:48 am

Wow, you're so wrong about urban neighborhoods it's not even funny.
You can block him by clicking his username and clicking "Add foe".
Very mature, fellas!
I know but like...I think you know what I mean.
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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby 612transplant » June 22nd, 2012, 11:21 am

I don't necessarily agree with Lancaster's thoughts on the skyways, but I think we are all being incredibly naive if we blame the skyways exclusively for killing retail on downtown's streets...

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby FISHMANPET » June 22nd, 2012, 11:56 am

I'm not going to come anywhere near saying that anything in particular has destroyed anything, but it's come up in the Nicolet Residences thread about what makes an urban area, and it's not height, and it's not even density per se, it's activity (height and density contribute to that but at the core it's activity). So by creating a second sidewalk system, you're cutting the vitality of the street level sidewalks in half, well below the threshold of activity needed for some businesses. So you're left with super chain fast food in the skyways, or things that are open from 8 am to 1 pm. Maybe if they had the day time office foot trafic *and* the all day sidewalk foot traffic they could be open longer.

A comparison to Dallas' system is pretty laughable, because nobody walks anywhere there. I don't think we need to be emulating anything in Texas.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Jez » June 22nd, 2012, 12:21 pm

I'm not going to come anywhere near saying that anything in particular has destroyed anything, but it's come up in the Nicolet Residences thread about what makes an urban area, and it's not height, and it's not even density per se, it's activity (height and density contribute to that but at the core it's activity). So by creating a second sidewalk system, you're cutting the vitality of the street level sidewalks in half, well below the threshold of activity needed for some businesses. So you're left with super chain fast food in the skyways, or things that are open from 8 am to 1 pm. Maybe if they had the day time office foot trafic *and* the all day sidewalk foot traffic they could be open longer.

A comparison to Dallas' system is pretty laughable, because nobody walks anywhere there. I don't think we need to be emulating anything in Texas.
Totally agree w/the last point. We had the choice 7 years ago of moving to Dallas or here, we chose here HANDS DOWN!! One of the things that attracted us was that it's NOTHING like TX!! People actually walk, it's clean and liberal and that what we still love about it here.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Nathan » June 22nd, 2012, 12:22 pm

There is no denying that in Minneapolis we have some less than desirable weather, and someone being able to traverse downtown to get that restaurant inside is far better than them just forgoing it and driving back to the suburbs to eat at Ruby Tuesdays when they get home instead.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby FISHMANPET » June 22nd, 2012, 1:17 pm

There is no denying that in Minneapolis we have some less than desirable weather, and someone being able to traverse downtown to get that restaurant inside is far better than them just forgoing it and driving back to the suburbs to eat at Ruby Tuesdays when they get home instead.
It's certainly not any better if the restuaurant closes at 3 because there's no foot traffic in the evening on their sidewalk or skyway location.

There's a good number of resturants downtown, but I don't think there's very many $10-$20 plates downtown in the skyway zone, and certainly not any at night.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Konante » June 22nd, 2012, 2:22 pm

There is no denying that in Minneapolis we have some less than desirable weather, and someone being able to traverse downtown to get that restaurant inside is far better than them just forgoing it and driving back to the suburbs to eat at Ruby Tuesdays when they get home instead.
It's certainly not any better if the restuaurant closes at 3 because there's no foot traffic in the evening on their sidewalk or skyway location.

There's a good number of resturants downtown, but I don't think there's very many $10-$20 plates downtown in the skyway zone, and certainly not any at night.
Well said. The net effect is negative.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Nathan » June 22nd, 2012, 3:00 pm

We definitely need another thread. The skyways have kept our downtown core compact. And from not becoming a central avenue in PHX or sprawling like ATL... The reason so many of those close at night is because NO ONE lives there. 30k in all of downtown. that's less than 1% of the metro area. if you think getting rid of the skyways is going to get people to people to stick around after hours (especially november-march) you're mistaken.

They were and are a great innovation, and something that our city should lay claim to, be proud of. Visitors are always impressed, in my experience.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby 612transplant » June 22nd, 2012, 3:41 pm

So by creating a second sidewalk system, you're cutting the vitality of the street level sidewalks in half, well below the threshold of activity needed for some businesses. So you're left with super chain fast food in the skyways, or things that are open from 8 am to 1 pm.
Oh, I agree with you, no doubt-- but in the interest of the debate (and maybe to play devil's advocate a little tiny bit?), I want to point out that Minneapolis is really not unique in the fact that we're "left with super chain fast food" or chain retailers in the downtown core. I live in Pittsburgh now (not a great example of downtown vitality, I'll admit), there's no skyway system of note at all here, and it's all chains at street level. And they all close at about 6pm, except the McDonalds that stays open to 9. Granted, that's not the same everywhere-- New York and Chicago do fine in that regard. But many of Minneapolis's peer cities are in a similar boat, with or without skyways. Methinks there's something more to it than just taking foot traffic off the streets and moving it indoors...

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Wedgeguy » June 22nd, 2012, 4:20 pm

Look at all the restraunts on the Nicolett [sic] Mall. There is Hell's Kitchen off the mall on the street. The new place in their old spot is a great pub from what I've heard. Murry's, Ruth Chris, the Oceanaire are all on the street level. IF you give them a real reason to get out of the skyway, people will go to them. The biggest thing is to provide better street to skyway access so people can get out of them easier. I really don't see the Skyway expanding that much more in reality. They will primarily be in the core of the downtown. I don't see a skyway to the dome or HCMC. We are kinda maxed on expansion. But any infill of the open lots need to be better planned for people to get around both at street level. Windows, storefronts, clearly defined doors to a skyway that is not a gerbil tube but an area where you can access the street easily! I know I'm dreaming, But it can be done.

The skyways are much better for the office traffic and I see the residential area with cafes, bars, store on the streets like in the North Loop. Yes there will be a few more residential building connected to the skyways. But again see above for making them work for both the skyway and the street level. They have to be planned and not an afterthought like so many of them are.

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby Lancestar2 » June 22nd, 2012, 5:35 pm

For me personally I would never have picked Minneapolis to live if it wasn't for the skyway network. Instead I would have picked a suburb where I could have drove from place to place in my comfortable climate controlled car :) dispite the gas prices places like Apple Valley where everything is bunched up in a tight retail district it still could be rather affordable as long as you work close to where you live which could have been an option for me. If you were to shut down the skyway network the city would have a huge decrease in population and residency.
This made me gag. You are not built for urban living and cities are not and should not be designed for people like you. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

I, for one, am glad the new HQ won't have a skyway. I acknowledge their benefits but the net effect is negative.
Well I am not what people may call a "native urban dweller". I grew up in a very rural area, then moved out and lived in the suburbs for a good while until finally moving downtown, because it was going to be an experience. I do enjoy the accessibility of downtown and have adapted rather nicely IMO. I do appreciate the streets and sidewalks however I guess it's no secret that I love the skyway system 10x more!

Some day I think I will have to travel to Dallas and other cities where they have a larger indoor network of walking traffic because I think it would be fun! At times I believe it is more people in the skyways than on the streets perhaps its mostly the commuter works from the suburbs. call me crazy by if Minneapolis is trying to expand their downtown base I don't think "come walk a mile in the snow to the grocery store!" is a good selling point. I know you "native urban dweller's" may disagree but you have to make living downtown "easier and more appealing" for more to buy into the idea. I may not know numbers on where people are coming from but my guess is most are from the metro area already (mainly the suburbs). Also my favorite time to take the skyway is when it's snowing outside or pouring raining rain it makes the city very pretty and I appreciate the skyway so much more at those moments.

Also I would encourage everyone to try to live in the suburbs at some point in time in there lives even if it's just a week vacation in a dense suburbs. I think you will gain from the experience and understand how much more work it is to live a urban lifestyle in downtown.

Also I think Xcel Energy may agree with the idea of creating a skyway to the library. The fact they are creating the option into the design shows they have an intent to possible consider the option which is all I can ask for :mrgreen:


Also maybe if anybody wants to create a skyway thread and explain to me what the negative effects of the Skyway are a bit more in detail that would be great! I know less people walking the streets creates less feeling of safety and less attractive store fronts but why is it so bad to have all our retail inside instead of outside?

and finally If you feel the need to block me :cry: I will say I don't encourage a suburb lifestyle I bought a brand new car out of high school and to think it has already lost about 90% of its value! :cry: Very expensive and impractical lifestyle I love downtown but just not the weather I just wish I could live in a city where I never HAD to go out doors for longer than 10min at a time. :mrgreen:

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Re: Xcel Energy HQ

Postby FISHMANPET » June 22nd, 2012, 5:41 pm

Edit: I'm making a new thread


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