Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
SurlyLHT
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: February 21st, 2017, 3:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby SurlyLHT » July 28th, 2021, 10:58 am

It really is amazing how some people see the idling police car as threatening, and some see it as reassuring.
Is it amazing? It's a major lesson of the last few years. Police presence is both.

But I'm 100% with Alex. It shouldn't be a on the sidewalk and it shouldn't be idling. Seems like exactly where good old fashion foot patrol would make sense, but what do I know?
One objection I have with the forum is that too often we lean too much into the ideal world and not in reality. Would it be great to have foot patrols and not have a squad sitting there? Yes, that will be great!

According to what I've read and the 4th Precinct Inspector who spoke at community meeting with Jeremiah Ellison explained how the staffing works. Basically each Precinct has only a few squads and if there is a shooting they need help from other Precincts and if there are two the city begins to run out of Patrols. It's been reported that the 4th Precinct at times has only had 4 Officers during the day shift.

So basically, we can't have officers walking around on foot. They need to be in a squad or bicycle so they can get where needed within their Precinct or another when something occurs.

Also has anyone ever seen a squad turned off when not at the Precinct? It's simply not done because of the electronics and many of you already know this.

If you want imaginary buildings or an imaginary world go play Sim City.

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Silophant
Moderator
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Location: Whimsical NE

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby Silophant » July 28th, 2021, 11:01 am

Man, if only Nicollet had cross streets with parking where the squad could be parked and easily accessible. Too bad none of them do.

Blaisdell Greenway
Landmark Center
Posts: 201
Joined: July 12th, 2013, 8:42 am

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby Blaisdell Greenway » July 28th, 2021, 11:18 am

So basically, we can't have officers walking around on foot. They need to be in a squad or bicycle so they can get where needed within their Precinct or another when something occurs.
Why are they even downtown then, parked on sidewalks, if their purpose is only to wait until they get called to go somewhere else? Alex's original description of "security theater" seems extra relevant now.

Why is wanting something better or more useful for our city treated so dismissively by people on this forum?

Tyler
Foshay Tower
Posts: 867
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:10 am

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby Tyler » July 28th, 2021, 12:38 pm

It really is amazing how some people see the idling police car as threatening, and some see it as reassuring.
Is it amazing? It's a major lesson of the last few years. Police presence is both.

But I'm 100% with Alex. It shouldn't be a on the sidewalk and it shouldn't be idling. Seems like exactly where good old fashion foot patrol would make sense, but what do I know?
One objection I have with the forum is that too often we lean too much into the ideal world and not in reality. Would it be great to have foot patrols and not have a squad sitting there? Yes, that will be great!

According to what I've read and the 4th Precinct Inspector who spoke at community meeting with Jeremiah Ellison explained how the staffing works. Basically each Precinct has only a few squads and if there is a shooting they need help from other Precincts and if there are two the city begins to run out of Patrols. It's been reported that the 4th Precinct at times has only had 4 Officers during the day shift.

So basically, we can't have officers walking around on foot. They need to be in a squad or bicycle so they can get where needed within their Precinct or another when something occurs.

Also has anyone ever seen a squad turned off when not at the Precinct? It's simply not done because of the electronics and many of you already know this.

If you want imaginary buildings or an imaginary world go play Sim City.
I fell like you want this to be an endorsement of their actions but it really isn't.
Towns!

dimabima
Block E
Posts: 13
Joined: September 25th, 2020, 12:31 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby dimabima » July 28th, 2021, 1:34 pm

This is my third week back in the office full time. Every day (except for Mondays and Fridays) feels more crowded than the day before. Felt like there was a decent amount of foot traffic in the skyways today, especially.

tedlanda2571
City Center
Posts: 39
Joined: June 25th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » July 31st, 2021, 9:40 am

This is my third week back in the office full time. Every day (except for Mondays and Fridays) feels more crowded than the day before. Felt like there was a decent amount of foot traffic in the skyways today, especially.
My first two days back were this week, and honestly, they were the best two days of work in 18 months. Solved a few lingering ‘B’ priorities because I casually ran into the folks I needed to talk to, had some good laughs with the crew on the floor, and had a delicious lunch.

martykoessel
Landmark Center
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Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:12 am

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby martykoessel » August 2nd, 2021, 1:55 pm

Minneapolis 2040
Option 1: Minneapolis has evolved into a place with reduced office activity but much more residential life, with shopping, restaurants, and entertainment oriented toward the residents and those who come into the city to enjoy the activity.
Option 2: Office activity diminishes, residents flee, and the downtown area is grim.
Option 3: The United States has fallen to pieces, and this sort of thing is irrelevant.

Inevitable: By then I'm pretty damn old or dead.

I'm guessing there are other options, but in dystopian 2021, these are the ones that come most readily to mind. :roll:

uptownbro
Landmark Center
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Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby uptownbro » August 5th, 2021, 8:53 am

US bank and Wells fargo have pushed there return to office plans back one month. I do wonder how much this is drive by the fact that these two companies have offices all over the nation not just in a city that is highly vaccinated (85% per lisa goodman)

tedlanda2571
City Center
Posts: 39
Joined: June 25th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » September 10th, 2021, 8:36 am

Prediction: in 20 years we will look back on the dramatic work from home shift that occurred in 2020-2022 as being largely a white privilege movement that had huge negative impacts on marginalized urban communities of color.

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1898
Joined: October 31st, 2014, 12:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby amiller92 » September 10th, 2021, 9:44 am

Prediction: in 20 years we will look back on the dramatic work from home shift that occurred in 2020-2022 as being largely a white privilege movement that had huge negative impacts on marginalized urban communities of color.
I think we can already say that.

tedlanda2571
City Center
Posts: 39
Joined: June 25th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » September 10th, 2021, 1:09 pm

Prediction: in 20 years we will look back on the dramatic work from home shift that occurred in 2020-2022 as being largely a white privilege movement that had huge negative impacts on marginalized urban communities of color.
I think we can already say that.
True, but until recently I was holding out hope against hope that it was largely a reversible event. Naive, I know...

RedDutch
City Center
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Joined: December 20th, 2017, 6:13 am

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby RedDutch » September 11th, 2021, 5:29 am

Prediction: in 20 years we will look back on the dramatic work from home shift that occurred in 2020-2022 as being largely a white privilege movement that had huge negative impacts on marginalized urban communities of color.
White privilege movement? Please explain why employers keeping there workforce safe and trying to help not spread the virus is a white privilege movement. Hasn't this impacted all communities, not just communities of color?

tedlanda2571
City Center
Posts: 39
Joined: June 25th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » September 11th, 2021, 8:30 am

Prediction: in 20 years we will look back on the dramatic work from home shift that occurred in 2020-2022 as being largely a white privilege movement that had huge negative impacts on marginalized urban communities of color.
White privilege movement? Please explain why employers keeping there workforce safe and trying to help not spread the virus is a white privilege movement. Hasn't this impacted all communities, not just communities of color?
Responding to a pandemic by sending folks home isn't white privilege. The ever-widening 'STAY-at-home' movement is definitely white privilege. Why? because frankly it's 'stay at home because (mostly) white folks with long commutes and big houses and home offices like it'.

Meanwhile, basically every negative externality of that change will fall on urban black and brown communities in a massively disproportionate way.

I'm honestly surprised that this has been so widely ignored in a world so-supposedly focused on social justice (full disclosure: there is some commentary on this angle, but not much as part of the wider narrative).

I'm thinking corporations should be pressured to get people back in the office based on a pure equity argument.

Admittedly, this is just an observation/theory that has been bugging me recently, so I haven't fully hashed it out. Partly why I dropped it here to see if it's a good/bad take.

Trademark
Landmark Center
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Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby Trademark » September 11th, 2021, 9:04 am

It has intersections with both race and class. The majority of these work from home jobs are not the blue collar jobs that many people never got to stay home and quarantine from.

And even when it's not higher paying jobs that do work from home. Some people who don't have the space for an office in their house. Have to juggle many things in a smaller space in the background while having to keep their job and responsibilities makes them have to work harder then just show up and clock in and clock out.

People working from home are on average richer and whiter population then the general population. And among those experiencing difficulties in working from home are on average poorer and less white.

Offloading the responsibility of office space from boss to worker will also increase the amount of people who start to think they need a bigger house that maybe they can't afford. Less density because of those bigger houses. And less concern about sprawl and long commutes because of not having to drive it every day.

Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
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Location: Bloomington, MN

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » September 11th, 2021, 1:03 pm

So what so-called "negative externalities" are there about people not getting into their cars and driving to work? I'd think people would be happy we're reducing the need for downtown parking and highways and air pollution. Maybe we could convert the Multifoods tower to apartments and ease the housing shortage.

tedlanda2571
City Center
Posts: 39
Joined: June 25th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » September 11th, 2021, 1:36 pm

So what so-called "negative externalities" are there about people not getting into their cars and driving to work? I'd think people would be happy we're reducing the need for downtown parking and highways and air pollution. Maybe we could convert the Multifoods tower to apartments and ease the housing shortage.
1) Jobs, jobs, jobs. There are entire ancillary industries that serve office workers. My office building employs restaurant workers, security workers, custodial workers, building maintenance workers, etc. that definitely seem to be disproportionately POC and/or ‘blue collar’. Not to mention restaurants, bars, dry cleaners, etc. ad nauseum

2) Disadvantageous to people with homes that are too small, too crowded, too loud, etc. to serve as effective professional workplaces. (I.e. people who aren’t rich and white)

3) the contra of above: encouragement of sprawl

4) the softest, but perhaps the biggest: gradual disinterest and disinvestment in the core cities (effectively a miniature ‘white flight’)

I believe the evidence to date shows that after the initial total shut down that not much carbon is ‘saved’ working from home largely due to decentralization (i.e. zillions of people heating and cooling every single living space vs. large office buildings, etc.).

The notion of using Multifoods as housing might be possible, but it sure ain’t compassionate or appealing. As has been pointed out here in order to gain any efficiency of scale the vast majority of the ‘apartments’ would be interior and have no windows (or be bizarre layouts or something).

I admit I’m talking my book, but I honestly think this will look like urban freeway construction or something once we have a few years of hindsight.

SurlyLHT
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1091
Joined: February 21st, 2017, 3:50 pm

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby SurlyLHT » September 13th, 2021, 8:15 am

So what so-called "negative externalities" are there about people not getting into their cars and driving to work? I'd think people would be happy we're reducing the need for downtown parking and highways and air pollution. Maybe we could convert the Multifoods tower to apartments and ease the housing shortage.
1) Jobs, jobs, jobs. There are entire ancillary industries that serve office workers. My office building employs restaurant workers, security workers, custodial workers, building maintenance workers, etc. that definitely seem to be disproportionately POC and/or ‘blue collar’. Not to mention restaurants, bars, dry cleaners, etc. ad nauseum

2) Disadvantageous to people with homes that are too small, too crowded, too loud, etc. to serve as effective professional workplaces. (I.e. people who aren’t rich and white)

3) the contra of above: encouragement of sprawl

4) the softest, but perhaps the biggest: gradual disinterest and disinvestment in the core cities (effectively a miniature ‘white flight’)

I believe the evidence to date shows that after the initial total shut down that not much carbon is ‘saved’ working from home largely due to decentralization (i.e. zillions of people heating and cooling every single living space vs. large office buildings, etc.).

The notion of using Multifoods as housing might be possible, but it sure ain’t compassionate or appealing. As has been pointed out here in order to gain any efficiency of scale the vast majority of the ‘apartments’ would be interior and have no windows (or be bizarre layouts or something).

I admit I’m talking my book, but I honestly think this will look like urban freeway construction or something once we have a few years of hindsight.
I agree.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... ustainable

dajazz
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 172
Joined: May 12th, 2016, 8:11 am

Re: Downtown Minneapolis - News & General Topics

Postby dajazz » September 15th, 2021, 10:24 am

Prediction: in 20 years we will look back on the dramatic work from home shift that occurred in 2020-2022 as being largely a white privilege movement that had huge negative impacts on marginalized urban communities of color.
White privilege movement? Please explain why employers keeping there workforce safe and trying to help not spread the virus is a white privilege movement. Hasn't this impacted all communities, not just communities of color?
Responding to a pandemic by sending folks home isn't white privilege. The ever-widening 'STAY-at-home' movement is definitely white privilege. Why? because frankly it's 'stay at home because (mostly) white folks with long commutes and big houses and home offices like it'.

Meanwhile, basically every negative externality of that change will fall on urban black and brown communities in a massively disproportionate way.

I'm honestly surprised that this has been so widely ignored in a world so-supposedly focused on social justice (full disclosure: there is some commentary on this angle, but not much as part of the wider narrative).

I'm thinking corporations should be pressured to get people back in the office based on a pure equity argument.

Admittedly, this is just an observation/theory that has been bugging me recently, so I haven't fully hashed it out. Partly why I dropped it here to see if it's a good/bad take.
Define 'stay-at-home'. Are you talking during the remainder of the pandemic, or are you looking beyond the pandemic when some semblance of normalcy returns?

I agree that companies should pursue some in-person posture (personally I prefer a hybrid approach), but strongly disagree that it should happen anytime soon.


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