urbanMSP

I think nightlife also plays a pretty big role. Once we see the nightlife scene pick back up, the desire to live close to the action will return.

What I have noticed in my building is people are not moving out due to COVID or crime, but moving out due to life events (moving for family, having kids etc.), so we are not seeing any more people moving out than in previous years, but it is taking longer for the units to sell. My theory is right now the inconveniences of living downtown are the same as always, but most the benefits are closed due to COVID.

If you can afford a downtown condo today, you will be able to afford one once downtown reopens, so why wouldn't you wait to buy until you can enjoy what downtown has to offer.

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I think there's a misconception that only rich people buy condos downtown. While the only projects going up right now are super-luxury, there's a lot of existing stock that actually ends up being pretty affordable. In many of these older buildings, the mortgage plus association fees will be less than rent in comparable buildings.

Some of those older buildings have pretty high fees, though, to cover the increased maintenance cost (especially if it had been deferred for a while), and then there's also the increased chance of special assessments. So it can end up being a wash.

That's certainly true, but you are able to lock in the mortgage portion of your housing costs, and of course you're building equity in a way you wouldn't with renting. Also worth noting that a significant portion of the association fees are costs that a SFH owner typically need to carry beyond their mortgage -- insurance, utilities, maintenance, etc.

Anyway, this is mostly in response to the comment above that condo buyers are stereotyped to be very wealthy, when that's often not the case.

I am not implying that all condo owners are wealthy, just that the economics of owning a condo isn't going to change much from now until after COVID. It seems like buyers are taking a wait and see approach, thus leaving units on the market for longer than we have seen over the past few years.

I was mainly pointing out that people who are leaving downtown would be moving regardless of what is going on in the world (at least in my building).

Units are still selling and at decent prices, just taking longer to sell.

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I live at 12th & Nicollet and my HOA fees are considerably higher than my mortgage, though it includes a lot. There are some pretty good deals out there in that batch of 1970s/80s buildings if you can stomach the idea of the high fees.

Seems to make sense. The outflow of young couples starting families and wanting private yards and private bedrooms for their kids rather than a condo or loft downtown is still going on. But the influx of young singles just graduating from college or moving out of their parents house and replacing them has slowed due to downtown being shut down and crime.

There are plenty of small condo options at all price ranges. But once you start pushing past 1500 sq. ft, or looking for options with 3 bedrooms. There are very few affordable choices, even if someone prefers to stay in a condo. Switching to a SFH ends up being the only choice.

Speaking of Riverplace and by extension St. Anthony Main, I've gotta believe, with the success of The Phoenix and Mill & Main, it's only a matter of time before the complex is revitalized. Loved the good old days back in the mid 80s when both places were hopping. The area population should be about at the tipping point to support new retail, bars and restaurants.

The Mexican restaurant that used to be inside St. Anthony Main was always packed at happy hour.

https://m.startribune.com./detroit-firm ... lmob=y&c=n

Stick a 7-Eleven in it

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... polis.html

Hines as bought the parking lot at the 900 block of Marquette Avenue. Kind of surprised to see them float office space for it. 600-700 thousand square feet of office space is what they are floating. I wonder what they are planning.

I mean, given the size of that block and that space estimate, it implies a ~20 story tower, right?

I'd feel better about it once they break ground on the North Loop Green project...

Is this really "one of the last remaining" large surface lots in downtown? Hennepin and 5th begs to differ.

2nd and 10th, LaSalle and 11th, Marquette and 3rd, etc...

We still got a ton left to redevelop, and don't for forget about all the parking ramps!

Still no shortage of parking lots downtown even with the great progress made over the past 10 years. The parking lots at 5th and Hennepin are the ones that bother far more then this one but will still be a win to see this one go.
I would guess 20 to 30 stories give that the gateway will bring 500 thousand square on its 20 stories of office space.

I think the definition of “core” is getting some flexibility here.

Does 20 stories imply a rectangle building taking up the entire lot with no setbacks?

Measuring with Google Maps, the lot is about 36,000 square feet, so 600k-700k sf would require 17-20 stories with no setbacks. That being said, there's going to have to be some setback from the Young Quinlan building, if nothing else - the Planning Commission was clear in the 240 Park Ave approval that a new building isn't allowed to just seal off a neighboring building's zero-lot-line windows, even if those windows were illegally added in the first place. I also suspect they'll wind up leaving the Schmitt Music mural at least partially visible to try (probably unsuccessfully) stave off public outcry.

I'm curious what'll happen with the alley that runs through the middle of this block - that's the loading dock access for all of the existing buildings on the block, and trucks can't use the Nicollet end of the alley. Modify it into a T-shaped alley connecting to 9th and 10th to create those setbacks mentioned above? Make a midblock tunnel like the City Club Apartments a block over?

Given the size and shape of the lot im very curious on how they will make it all work based on what others have stated.
There will be alot of pressure to preserve the music wall which I can understand. It is a very defining part of downtown for many people. Maybe have the tower only use part of the lot along with a midblock tunnel with the space in front of the music wall being green space/ a public plaza? Not sure if thats even realistic.

Maybe have first couple floors of the tower be empty on that half, kind of like 100 Washington Ave S?

There are about 10 different ways I could think of how they keep the mural accessible. My preferred method would be a set back with a green plaza with a few retail spaces wrapping along the space.