AC Marriott Hotel - 401 Hennepin Ave (Andrews Hotel site)

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IllogicalJake
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby IllogicalJake » January 12th, 2015, 11:57 am

What is it with the snark on this board? I was under the impression that this was a place for reasonable dialogue and idea-sharing...
To borrow from another post,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Ha Ha Ha

*sniff sniff*

Oh geez...

This just made my day. Thank you for that!
:D
I in no way endorse this use of my post. It's kind of rude, actually.
An obnoxious laugh in response to any thoughtful post is kind of rude and adds nothing of value in the first place... I was trying to also agree that the amount of snark and unfriendliness is way too damn high by using what I found to be an unfriendly, snarky post. If that came off as anything other than that, I apologize sanguinic, I really try to be a nice guy. :)
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

mattaudio
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mattaudio » January 12th, 2015, 12:43 pm

While I like some snark, I have to comment about David's specific post. David, if we didn't know the source, I (and others) would think that many of your previous pro-3A remarks on SWLRT were snark. Srsly!

nickmgray
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby nickmgray » January 13th, 2015, 9:00 am

The reason we don't have any of the old hotels is because of the way old hotels were originally constructed. Hotels that were built in the early 1900s has very small rooms with low ceilings and only a few bathrooms per floor. This is why they were not preserved and converted to apartments or used for other purposes. On the other side you have old office and warehouse buildings what have been preserved and converted into apartments and hotels. These buildings had open floor layouts and high ceilings which could easily be molded and used for other purposes.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mnmike » January 13th, 2015, 9:12 am

The reason we don't have any of the old hotels is because of the way old hotels were originally constructed. Hotels that were built in the early 1900s has very small rooms with low ceilings and only a few bathrooms per floor. This is why they were not preserved and converted to apartments or used for other purposes. On the other side you have old office and warehouse buildings what have been preserved and converted into apartments and hotels. These buildings had open floor layouts and high ceilings which could easily be molded and used for other purposes.
That isn't entirely true...perhaps for the VERY old hotels of the type you describe, and the smaller ones....but we did have some of the same kind of large old hotels that still exist in other cities, that just didn't make it to modernization here. The Leamington, the Curtis, The original Radisson. Well, actually they did get modernized. All of those got all kinds of oddly modified in the 50s/60s, which is maybe why they didn't make it back around to renovated "historic hotels". Oh, and also The Nicollet Hotel of course! None of these 4 I mentioned were like the ones you describe...The Nicollet didn't have any extensive funky modernizations in the 50s/60s like the others did either really, though the larger version was built a bit later than the others mentioned. They would kind of be our smaller version of the Palmer House, Hilton or Blackstone on South Michigan in Chicago.

Image
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59662214@N06/6136609624/

Here is the Lileks page on old hotels. Some of the smaller older ones were like Nick said...difficult to translate to modern hotel, but the larger ones could have easily still been around. Though they could have also still been around as sort of trashy versions of their former selves, kind of the Kahler in Rochester, excluding the top couple floors that they have actually put money into. Who knows what would have happened.

http://lileks.com/mpls/hotels/index.html
Last edited by mnmike on January 13th, 2015, 9:39 am, edited 9 times in total.

mattaudio
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mattaudio » January 13th, 2015, 9:18 am

Which is a shame, since those hotels truly are great. The big city equivalent of staying at the St. James in Red Wing or the Archer House in Northfield. At the last few CNUs, I've stayed in the old downtown hotels that seemed to attract alternate programming (SLC's Peery for CNU21 and Buffalo's Lafayette for CNU22). What a great way to feel connected to a city.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby go4guy » January 13th, 2015, 11:49 am

From my personal experience, the Hilton in Chicago is an example of why those old hotels did not last. The Hilton has continued to work because the common areas are large and amazing. The hotel has a lot of history (I believe every president has stayed there since it was built.) And it is sort of the Hilton flagship. But once you get to the rooms, they are awful. Any room I have been in is cramped, and has terrible flow. Many of the 2 queen rooms have two small bathrooms because they had to take 2 rooms and expand into 1 just to make it work. If you take away the location, and common areas, it is really not that great of a hotel. I assume most of those old hotels that were torn down here did not have that impressive of common spaces.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mnmike » January 13th, 2015, 12:17 pm

Yes, that was the formula for those type of hotels...and continues to basically be the formula for large convention hotels. Big lobbies and common spaces, pack in lots of small rooms.

MNHS visual resources database:

www.mnhs.org

Radisson Hotel Ballroom:
Image

Nicollet Hotel Ballroom:
Image

Nicollet Hotel Lobby:
Image

Anyway, sorry, I know this is all somewhat off topic:) Just interesting.
Last edited by mnmike on January 13th, 2015, 12:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

mattaudio
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mattaudio » January 13th, 2015, 12:19 pm

But those quirks add to part of the charm, IMO.

twincitizen
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby twincitizen » January 13th, 2015, 12:20 pm


Minneboy
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby Minneboy » January 13th, 2015, 5:04 pm

These old hotels were so grand. They remind me of ships. Even the outside of the picture of Lemington has always given me that impression.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby Wedgeguy » January 13th, 2015, 5:24 pm

I'll take the Madison Hotel as it looks like they actually are spending some money on better design than Mortenson. While I know that European Hotels tend to be more contemporary. The Mortenson design lack any real contemporary or European feel on the outside. The Madison design I could see fitting in Europe, the current design belongs in Willmar or Kato.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby twincitizen » January 13th, 2015, 7:30 pm

We've definitely beat this dead horse already, but there are clearly some interested people who were asking the wrong questions entirely (i.e. Why won't you build my imaginary 60-story hotel here?), which was mostly unproductive, except to demonstrate that the community does in fact desire something better on this parcel.

Had I seen this Madison design earlier, maybe even I would have been motivated to email my councilmember and CM Frey, just to say "Wait a minute here, are we sure we're not getting screwed?" Nothing at all to do with the height (as the Madison proposal is equal or shorter), but just to demand a better design.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby nickmgray » January 14th, 2015, 9:15 am

I understand the feeling of getting an inferior building when we see other proposals for the same brand in other cities, but who are we to judge? I know we care about the city and how buildings integrate into the surrounding neighborhood, but do we really think that the developers are simply trying to put something up that's sub-par?

Keep in mind that this is a luxury hotel chain that has a brand to maintain. They stay in business to selling rooms to guests 365 nights out of the year. Obviously, they would not approve a design which was below their brand expectations.

I have a feeling that we're missing something that will make this proposal more appealing than the renders imply.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mnmike » January 14th, 2015, 9:44 am

AC is not a really luxury hotel...it's like "luxury light". It Marriott's answer to Aloft by W, Hyatt place, or maybe a more "hip" Hilton Garden Inn. Often a bit smaller than luxury brands from the same hotel company, a little less expensive, and with less services than a "luxury" hotel, and aimed at Millennials...trying to be trendy. Pretty much exactly the same format as the new Radisson Red brand. Seems like Aloft started it, and now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

I think part of the problem is, all of the renderings we have seen have been really low quality. If we had seen better renderings (like that Madison one, even though that building seems better too), it would probably look a bit better. They have only released cartoonish ones! Anyway, it will be nice to see that corner activated...hope construction starts soon!

twincitizen
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby twincitizen » January 14th, 2015, 10:59 am

Your comment about renderings is a good point. City staff has likely only seen the same renderings that have been shared publicly. If there were better ones available, they probably would've been part of the Planning Commission's packet (i.e. the people you're trying to convince). If I were sitting on the Planning Commission or City Council, I'd definitely be asking for some higher quality renderings to get a better approximation of what this will look like.

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Nathan
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby Nathan » January 14th, 2015, 11:26 am

The Madison projects has about 50x's better design features. I don't think ours is awful... but it doesn't fall in line with AC designs from other cities or countries. I think we're definitely getting screwed. The Madison hotel is dynamic and has energy and light. Ours is pretty drab.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby Minneboy » January 14th, 2015, 11:36 am

What does AC stand for? The sign on the Madison rendering makes it look like a cheap for sale sign.

mattaudio
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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mattaudio » January 14th, 2015, 11:41 am

The original "AC Hotel" brand was from Spain. Then it was bought by Marriott, and only recently have they been importing the brand for a new hotel line in the U.S.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby mullen » January 14th, 2015, 11:49 am

yea i don't what it is about mortenson and their renderings. or maybe they just build bland buildings. that new hotel over by first avenue isn't anything special. the rendering they released for the nicollet hotel block is the worst of the proposals.

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Re: AC Marriott Hotel (401 Hennepin Ave / Andrews Hotel site

Postby sushisimo » January 15th, 2015, 9:00 am

I like our proposal better. Madison's is so played out. Hello, 2008 called, and they want their overly contrived, Jenga-block style of architecture back.


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