RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[nate]

I know that how a building meets the street is of primary importance when evaluating the urban impact, but I wouldn't discount the effect that a signature building can have on street level from blocks away. Exhibit A, in our little downtown, is the view of the IDS from 5th and Nicollet, linked below. When I get off the train, (especially at night, when you see hundreds of office lights turned on) I get a sense that I have -arrived- in the big city. It's a good feeling.

The Duval proposal is the only one of the four that I could imagine having a similar effect.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9789152 ... 901T000000

[Nathan]

I love how everyone wants to give the Duval project time to refine, but not the other developers. It shows the preference to height as icon, not actual architecture.

Err...people have said they like Duval precisely because of its simplicity and dislike, for example, Doran due to its complexity. In other words, they like its architecture in comparison to the others.

Exactly what I'm getting at, if Duval gets time to refine, why wouldn't doran get the opportunity to refine add height or simplify to satisfy them. That's not what people are saying, they're excited by height and a new developer.

[mattaudio]

It shows the preference to height as icon

Yep. https://storify.com/ebkent/ilookup

[talindsay]

All of them need, and will receive, lots of time to refine and redesign if selected. Frankly, it's unlikely that the final project will resemble any of these - and I'd bet a thousand internets that even if Duval is selected we won't be seeing any 900-foot buildings. Heck, I'd be surprised if we see a 700-foot building because the economics for that kind of height just aren't there for Minneapolis right now. Anybody who pushes Duval for height is likely to be sorely disappointed.

These are just concepts, and the ideas being brought represent the general direction of each developer's thinking. Clearly they all expect to go quite a ways up, and the real differentiators are around the mix of uses, interaction with the street, and architectural emphasis.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

I think this market can support a 900 footer. The Duval design is the most appealing to me not just due to height but when that is considered it blows the others away.

Given the current demand for DT housing and having the wow factor of the newly built skyscraper in Minneapolis would most likely drive buyers to this building. Then with the mixed use and proximity to Whole Foods, the library, and the planned Nicollet street car you have a winner.

Save the other proposals for more infill and downtown east.

[MNdible]

Yes, I think that the impact that the Whole Foods across the street has on this site cannot be overstated. For downtown residents trying to get by with fewer cars, having a great new grocery store literally across the site is hugely important. That, coupled with the redevelopment of the Nic on 5th block, make this a vastly more attractive site than it was the last time this block went out for RFP.

[maxbaby]

Renderings
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... block.html

[xandrex]

I know that how a building meets the street is of primary importance when evaluating the urban impact, but I wouldn't discount the effect that a signature building can have on street level from blocks away. Exhibit A, in our little downtown, is the view of the IDS from 5th and Nicollet, linked below. When I get off the train, (especially at night, when you see hundreds of office lights turned on) I get a sense that I have -arrived- in the big city. It's a good feeling.

This. Absolutely.

I think the first time I really fell in love with Minneapolis was while I was still in high school and staying at a hotel in Bloomington. We took the light rail up to Nicollet Mall. It was a sunny day, the farmers market was happening, and people were bustling about. Getting off at Nicollet and seeing the gleaming IDS really made me feel like I was somewhere.

[Nathan]

Now with that rendering of the mortenson proposal it just looks like a slightly more square lpm on office podium instead of parking.

[5th Ave Guy]

They should've just left out that second picture. Not sure if the scale is off or what, but it looks way more short and squat than the first one.

[nordeast homer]

They should've just left out that second picture. Not sure if the scale is off or what, but it looks way more short and squat than the first one.

I believe it is just wider on the Washington Ave side.

I think the building is okay, but not iconic by a long shot. This building makes no statement other than just another 30ish story apartment building. Do something different! I'm not saying it has to be 60 stories, but enough with everything being the same height. If the preliminary information on the Ritz block is anywhere near accurate that would make 5 buildings in 3 blocks that are all the same or very close to the same height... boring! From that sense alone this would be far from iconic.

[xandrex]

^When I first saw the Mortensen site, I was thrilled. It looked like an alternative to the Duval project that may or may not pan out. And it looked quite interesting.

But then the shot showing it from Hennepin and Washington going south. Ugh...that's one big, flat wall. Whereas the Duval works because it's tall, this just looks squat. Like something is missing. And that's especially the case because it really not surrounded by anything else of similar mass. Voya is set back and airy near the corner, 222 Hennepin is short. Across Hennepin there's nothing. If the Eclipse proposal went in with the Mortensen, man, would that intersection feel imposing.

[mplsjaromir]

In regards to Duval, does anything that for their first project, this might be too big big of a bight to choo? They don't really have a track record, maybe they should prove their metal with another project?

[ECtransplant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless

"Irregardless is a word" the article starts with, and has been in use since 1795.

Literally the next sentence:

"Most dictionaries list it as 'nonstandard' or 'incorrect' usage, and recommend that "regardless" should be used instead."

[John]

This building makes no statement other than just another 30ish story apartment building. Do something different! I'm not saying it has to be 60 stories, but enough with everything being the same height. If the preliminary information on the Ritz block is anywhere near accurate that would make 5 buildings in 3 blocks that are all the same or very close to the same height... boring! From that sense alone this would be far from iconic.

You get to the core problem with what's at stake here. The north end of the mall will be nothing more than a series of mediocre high rises with cheap facades and a couple restaurants. That's so lame for such a great street with so much potential for those remaining blocks to be great. Maybe I'm old fashioned since I watched Well Fargo and Capella being built. It just blows me away these developers using the descriptive word "iconic" for such lackluster proposals. It's such bullshit.

[7sisters]

For sure. If we're not going to build anything architecturally stylish, then make it super tall. We're long over-do for something tall. If we're not going to build tall- then build it architecturally stylish at least. I do think the 80 story proposal looks better then some will admit.

[Wedgeguy]

Too many here seem to forget that there is little of any reason to go north of 6th street. The retail and restaurants are to the south of sixth. The life on the mall at present is south of 6th. This summer that is where I saw the pedestrians. Why I'm for the height is it will be the visual calling card to draw people to that end of the mall. Other than the Library there is not a real draw to get people to walk to that end of the mall. No real retail, nothing as far as restaurants that have people wanting to go hangout at. This Block and the Ritz blocks are the two blocks that will save or make the mall a bust as far as getting people energized to go north of 5th street. I agree that if they stumble with the street level they will have wasted their money on both blocks. Sooner the CM's on the council understand this, the better the end products will be on both projects.

[uptowncarag]

Too many here seem to forget that there is little of any reason to go north of 6th street. The retail and restaurants are to the south of sixth. The life on the mall at present is south of 6th. This summer that is where I saw the pedestrians. Why I'm for the height is it will be the visual calling card to draw people to that end of the mall. Other than the Library there is not a real draw to get people to walk to that end of the mall. No real retail, nothing as far as restaurants that have people wanting to go hangout at. This Block and the Ritz blocks are the two blocks that will save or make the mall a bust as far as getting people energized to go north of 5th street. I agree that if they stumble with the street level they will have wasted their money on both blocks. Sooner the CM's on the council understand this, the better the end products will be on both projects.

I totally agree. The other projects could be anywhere downtown. It is too bad we could not do all 4. The Duval project would be fantastic here and the other 3 would make great in-fill.

[Tyler]

People aren't south of 6th because tall buildings are calling to them. It's cause that's where shit is.

[David Greene]

Err...people have said they like Duval precisely because of its simplicity and dislike, for example, Doran due to its complexity. In other words, they like its architecture in comparison to the others.

Exactly what I'm getting at, if Duval gets time to refine, why wouldn't doran get the opportunity to refine add height or simplify to satisfy them.

I never said anything about refining. I like it the way it is and so do some other people. Of course whatever project is chosen will be refined. If it is refined so as to make it a different project, the city should reopen bids.

That's not what people are saying, they're excited by height and a new developer.

That's not what I'm saying. You said people don't care about the architecture. I do and I like it.