RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[acs]

http://www.startribune.com/business/289597641.html

Not just dead, rejected outright by the city.

[Anondson]

The disappointment I have now is that there is nothing left that excites me with potential. Only that what is left won't a blemish like some of the buildings at the center of Nicollet.

Certainly not the way to make an impression for a rookie.

[xandrex]

Certainly not the way to make an impression for a rookie.

I'm sure Duval takes a hit from this, but plenty will blame the city (because, you know, they control Duval's finances). I think he'll be back with another (probably smaller) proposal elsewhere in town.

I liked a lot about the UP proposal, so I'm hoping with some tweaks they can come up with a good proposal. I think the hype about Duval might actually put some pressure on them to really come back with something to impress.

[BigIdeasGuy]

This shows how little faith I now have in the city of Minneapolis from ever truly embracing the future.

Yes, it's all the city's fault for a developer who overpromised and then couldn't deliver. "Dreaming, imagination, and creativity" doesn't get steel and glass out of the ground.

He never had the chance to deliver, the city didn't give him the chance. We'll never know if he overpromised and couldn't deliver, he might as well have, but the city decided that the proposal wasn't viable and they weren't going to select him. That's well within the city's right to do as the land owner but disappointing to many.

[xandrex]

^The letter to Mr. Duval pretty clearly lays out that he provided next to no details about his proposal, financials, or anything of the sort, even after the city gave a chance for follow up.

This was Mr. Duval's to lose. And he lost it.

[acs]

This is an embarrassment to the city no matter who is at fault. I really can't take another generic apartment tower on the most important block in the city. I was really high on Jacob Frey before this too. Just last night while introducing the riverfront partnership he talked about a future scenario about walking to the riverfront starting at the Nicollet hotel block 40 stories up.

[sushisimo]

This was Mr. Duval's to lose. And he lost it.

True. My first instinct was, "Oh now what, friggin' Minneapolis?" but upon reading the letter, I did a 180. He sure did get some publicity for his firm! Brilliance. And maybe he can propose something similar for the TCF corner.

[Anondson]

I can understand wanting to present your stuff in person. I'm very familiar with seeing otherwise intelligent accomplished credentialed adults not grasp something, something that was even within their expertise. Something that having a human talk you through and explain makes all the difference in getting your point across.

I can also see people wanting to avoid a "song and dance" show, just wanting the facts, on paper. If you give one proposal the chance to buffalo you with theater, then out of fairness you need to give everyone else who met your request perfectly the same chance to give a performance.

It's the city's land, they are giving it away, the city has different requirements for openness and transparency that private property owners do not have. Duval can just as easily find a parking lot crater owner willing to cash out his investment and develop this. There is no shortage of them.

[Silophant]

Yep. I liked the proposal, but there was nothing in particular in it that wouldn't work at 10th and Hennepin, or 9th and 2nd, or wherever.

[acs]

Sure Duval can build it elsewhere, but for this block the city requested iconic and we're getting infill. The opportunity cost is huge.

[David Greene]

Since the city outright rejected Duval's proposal for being incomplete, doesn't it follow that it should outright reject Doran's and Mortenson's proposals for not complying with requirements?

[Architorture]

I have to admit I loved the "tower porn" aspect of the 80 story proposal. But you can't build a tower with smoke and mirrors. I hope the city thoroughly scrutinizes the final selection and makes it something great for the city. Regardless, its too bad that any of the remaining selections won't have enough height to be a new city defining tower (meaning in close proxmity in height to the big 3).

[acs]

Let's just admit that we'll never get a new tallest tower here as the local developers don't have the expertise or finances to built it and the city will block all competition from outside.

[FISHMANPET]

I like there's some objective definition of iconic, as if we can just go down the rubric and come out with a score and if it meets a threshold it's ICONIC.
(sorry if I start a "definition of iconic" debate)

[Anondson]

Duval's did make an impact to the skyline like nothing else. But the interaction with Nicollet was going to be a possible sore spot. UP looks like it works with Nicollet quite well and makes more precious public space ... is that iconic? Dunno, but it is nothing to sniff at.

If the skyline-changer is off the table, I'm going to advocate for the one that improves Nicollet the best now.

[Archiapolis]

Sure Duval can build it elsewhere, but for this block the city requested iconic and we're getting infill. The opportunity cost is huge.

-1

[EOst]

Sure Duval can build it elsewhere, but for this block the city requested iconic and we're getting infill. The opportunity cost is huge.

Only if Duval could actually build it in the first place. They refused to prove it.

[TCfusion87]

This shows how little faith I now have in the city of Minneapolis from ever truly embracing the future.

Yes, it's all the city's fault for a developer who overpromised and then couldn't deliver. "Dreaming, imagination, and creativity" doesn't get steel and glass out of the ground.

He never had the chance to deliver, the city didn't give him the chance. We'll never know if he overpromised and couldn't deliver, he might as well have, but the city decided that the proposal wasn't viable and they weren't going to select him. That's well within the city's right to do as the land owner but disappointing to many.

^^
Exactly. The city did not even allow it to make it to a public forum or meeting. While dreaming, imagination, and creativity do not "literally" get steel and glass out of the ground, it forms the foundation for what can lead to a sense of community and civic pride. What the city planning commission has shown time and again, is that it does not know how to see beyond the near term. For all this talk about building the downtown population and creating energy, they sure put some water on the fire that was building.

[MNdible]

I too liked the Duval proposal best, but I do think that the UP proposal is a very strong second option -- while not as tall, it seems to make better urban moves. If we'd never seen the Duval proposal, I think most of us would be very happy with the UP.

[EOst]

Exactly. The city did not even allow it to make it to a public forum or meeting. While dreaming, imagination, and creativity do not "literally" get steel and glass out of the ground, it forms the foundation for what can lead to a sense of community and civic pride. What the city planning commission has shown time and again, is that it does not know how to see beyond the near term. For all this talk about building the downtown population and creating energy, they sure put some water on the fire that was building.

What would have been the advantage of a public forum?