Stadium Parking Ramp Development Site - 25 stories / 294'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby mattaudio » January 31st, 2016, 7:32 pm

Can't we all just get along?
Go Pack Go,
Go Parking Go,
God Bless America.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » January 31st, 2016, 8:20 pm

I was curious if there was an answer, and this is what I found (for starters):

http://tcbmag.com/Industries/Real-Estat ... wn-East-De

It mentions a confluence of factors that all came together at once, but it also states this:
For Wells Fargo, the new urban park was a linchpin without which the project could not have fallen into place.
And, to your point, it also states this:
Ironically, for an area choking on surface parking, a planned new parking ramp proved a key piece of catnip for the developers.
And then this:
Could the deal have been done without city financing help?

“No, it probably could not have gone forward,” Ryan’s Collins allows. “It could not have proceeded.

I know that's just one source, and there may not be a concrete answer, so it's also just my opinion (it's okay if we don't agree).
I don’t think there is any real mystery here. The article you provided actually makes the case that it was the MSFA program that made the Ryan / WF project a go.
  • Ironically, for an area choking on surface parking, a planned new parking ramp proved a key piece of catnip for the developers. “Downtown East has two groundbreaking amenities: a new stadium and a park,” says former Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, “but the key building is actually the far less sexy parking ramp.”

    The ramp will be owned by the Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority, and financed by the city and the MSFA. That public investment in parking provides leverage for the project: Office workers can park there during the week when the ramp would otherwise be empty. The public financing is a key incentive for Wells Fargo, which is underwriting the costs of the parking ramp and the park.
WF did not "buy in" until late in the game, after the Viking stadium was approved and in process of construction:
  • “It meant that for close to a year we were having several meetings a week, and near the end almost every day,” says Rybak. “We didn’t have a solid commitment from Wells Fargo until the very end. We knew it was likely: We were in very close contact with them. But they always reserved the right to walk away.”

    The Minneapolis City Council unanimously approved the project in mid-December. A few days later, Wells Fargo formally announced its commitment.
Finally, the “at press time” below took place after the New Viking Stadium had already broken ground. (The purpose for raising the Vikings / Wells fargo tiff on signage was to point out that the Vikings had rights granted by the legislature that pre-existed (came before) the Ryan/WF package. WF was encumbered because of PRE-EXISTING rights indicating that the one project had priority in terms of timing, scope, preferences and rights.

It was the conditions created by the MSFA / new Viking stadium, and the development parameters for DTE set by that decision, that made all the other big projects pursuable.
  • At press time, the Metrodome was being demolished and the new $975 million stadium is under construction. The $957 million light rail Green Line will link up with the existing Blue line just east of the area; service to St. Paul starts in June.
Didier, not arguing that there would be no development, that’s why I started my response with - -
  • “While it would be foolish to say there would have been no development, there is simply no question that the level, size and timing of the DTE development is specifically and directly tied to the decision to relocate the stadium.”
Having said that, WF’s decision was tied to events already put in motion by the MSFA legislation as the article referred to acknowledges. There would be no WF because there would be no ramp and no park (because it would be fronting a dilapidated metrodome (or a hole in the ground), a juvi-detention center, and a morgue/CSI facility. There certainly wouldn't be the multi-block large scale development programs that are now on the development block had there not been the stadium deal that clearly served as both the catalyst and the anchor.

Hence, like them or not, the Wilfs are the single largest drivers of the largest development program in downtown Minneapolis in decades and possibly ever. They are also the single largest investors. This is a demonstrable fact.

The tax revenues that Minneapolis will experience owing to the net new tax base owing to the Vikings driving their hard bargain will more that offset any costs in a shorter time than most could have reasonably predicted. In this, the Wilfs have also made downtown Minneapolis a national and international sports destination that puts MPLS on the sports map.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby mplsjaromir » January 31st, 2016, 8:37 pm

The Wilfs are shady, hence the court ruling that they committed civil racketeering. The stadium will be a dead zone outside the dozen times it is near capacity. My source is the fact that I lived near the Metrodome, I'm not in Hagerstown or wherever. Living or working near an NFL stadium brings no value. The only thing driving development is the parking garage paid for by the public. The only good thing the Wilf have ever done is expose the fragile psyche of Minnesota Viking super fans.

Zmike
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Zmike » January 31st, 2016, 10:45 pm

Remember the movie back to the future II ? I'm invisioning that same skyscraper here.. But instead of saying "biffs" on the top it will say.. "Wilfs"

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 1st, 2016, 8:55 am

What I don't get is that there are parking ramps half empty all over downtown, and they don't spur redevelopment whatsoever. And as far as this argument about the stadium spurring redevelopment in DTE, if the park wasn't there WF would not be there. So even if the ramp that supported the stadium that supported the park, and so on and so forth, helped make the WF complex possible, it's ultimately the existence of the park (as well as financing, a ramp, an LRT line, etc.) that is attracting WF and much of the other redevelopment in the immediate area (per the article), and will continue to do so.

I can understand the argument that the stadium triggered the existence of the park and this avalanche of redevelopment going on in DTE, but it's misleading to say that the success of DTE is directly driven by the stadium. If there were a park and it was funded a different way, my argument is that most of the redevelopment you see today would still be there. If there were just a stadium and no park, I don't think there would be as much redevelopment and success in DTE. In short, parks are better catalysts of redevelopment than NFL stadiums, and you're giving the Wilfs way too much credit.

mattaudio
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby mattaudio » February 1st, 2016, 9:30 am

If that company that's building a big new campus wasn't building in DTE, they'd be building a similarly-sized campus in one of two other locations in the city of Minneapolis. That's been discussed many times on the board.

EOst
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby EOst » February 1st, 2016, 9:31 am

What I don't get is that there are parking ramps half empty all over downtown, and they don't spur redevelopment whatsoever.
Who's to say they didn't already? 5th Ave may be a wall of ramps, but the area west of 5th is a heck of a lot denser than it was before they were built.

Archiapolis
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Archiapolis » February 1st, 2016, 9:55 am

Is it possible that the Wilf's, Ryan Companies, Wells Fargo and The City of Minneapolis are all to blame/deserving of credit?

I've said many times on the boards that it is egregious that this park wasn't paid for in full before a shovel was put in the ground for the Vikings projects.

IF the park had been paid for and a long term maintenance agreement signed would DTE be a success and the parties involved deserving of any credit?

amiller92
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby amiller92 » February 1st, 2016, 10:32 am

I'm glad skimmed this the next day, or I'd have had a hard time staying out of it. As is, most of what's being debated does not matter anymore.

Daboink
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Daboink » February 1st, 2016, 12:17 pm

I'm glad skimmed this the next day, or I'd have had a hard time staying out of it. As is, most of what's being debated does not matter anymore.
^This. Hence my overwhelming desire that we move on. I want no part of re-hashing all this for eternity.

mattaudio
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby mattaudio » February 1st, 2016, 5:41 pm

This thing is going to suck from the sidewalk: https://goo.gl/maps/WHsGov4Jntz

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Nick
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Nick » February 1st, 2016, 5:45 pm

SILVER LINING: maybe there is some use in Bester Lagley here defending Vikings projects if only as a lesson to everyone how weird it maybe looks when unaffiliated people loudly and publicly defend the money-making ventures of random businessmen!
Nick Magrino
[email protected]

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » February 2nd, 2016, 5:31 am

My interest wasn't in defending the Wilfs as much as noting the pathological dislike for them that seems to cause people to lose perspective on verifiably events associated with DTE, the Stadium, and Viking ownership. Its unseemly. There are times - just some times not always - when "Minnesota Nice" is more associated with an underlying passive aggressiveness than being actually nice - something that Minnesota at times has the reputation for. [Everyone seemed to enjoy the story about going after the NYC lawyer persona on one of these posts recently, so . . .]

"Unaffiliated people loudly and publicly defend"? What's that about? Isn't unaffiliated simply not having a bias as against many here who do? I just think there is something strange about an inability to acknowledge what is already known, easily affirmed as a matter of timing, rights conferred, and the documentary record; that the Wilfs decision to build in DTE is the principle driver behind the entire DTE construction boom including the closest $500 million project nearby. It was the anchor, the linchpin, the sine qua non, and the sole basis for the legislation that cause events to move. Its just bizarre.

"Random business"? Hardly, this is about a specific business, an NFL franchise, and its business decision to remain, its putting up close to $600 million of its own to build it (while owned by the state through the MFSA), and the carping about the ownership as if there was any decision they made wrt the Vikings ownership which was remotely out of line with decision making in that business sector.

While I don't live near Hagerstown (I had to smile at that one), I did have to live through a very severe (for Maryland) snowstorm so I had a lot of extra time to wax philosophical on this issue. But I stand by it.

amiller92
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby amiller92 » February 2nd, 2016, 3:07 pm

This thing is going to suck from the sidewalk: https://goo.gl/maps/WHsGov4Jntz
Haven't walk by, but rode my bike over there after they were much father along than the google images and it seemed okay. Maybe they moved the curb? I'll have to go over and have another look.

ETA: There's also "art" on each side (I think). Which is nice.

matthew5080
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby matthew5080 » March 9th, 2016, 11:56 am

What ever happened to this tower? Was it ever approved?

Image

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby VacantLuxuries » March 9th, 2016, 12:03 pm

That's a long story. The short of it is Ryan still has the air rights on the ramp but they're on their own for figuring out parking since they won't be allowed to add to the stadium ramp.

https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2079

nordeast homer
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby nordeast homer » March 9th, 2016, 1:28 pm

That's a long story. The short of it is Ryan still has the air rights on the ramp but they're on their own for figuring out parking since they won't be allowed to add to the stadium ramp.

https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2079
I flat out asked a Ryan sup. on DTE about that building and they denied that there ever was a plan for that site. I was told that once the Millwright building is done, they are done with the Downtown East project.

mplser
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby mplser » March 9th, 2016, 1:47 pm

lol what? where did that rendering come from then?

nordeast homer
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby nordeast homer » March 9th, 2016, 2:00 pm

Exactly!, but I asked 3 times, I even talked about the images, but was told that it wasn't in the plans. I really wanted to pull it up on my phone for them to look at, but was afraid they'd kick me out. (This was about 2 weeks ago.)

matthew5080
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby matthew5080 » March 9th, 2016, 2:15 pm

Exactly!, but I asked 3 times, I even talked about the images, but was told that it wasn't in the plans. I really wanted to pull it up on my phone for them to look at, but was afraid they'd kick me out. (This was about 2 weeks ago.)
Really? That's interesting. Why deny a building plan when it was so widely reported on?


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