Nicollet Mall

[FISHMANPET]

Back in 2006 I actually got sick from fumes along the mall after spending some time there an afternoon during rush hour, but that was 8 years ago and buses are much cleaner these days. But complaining about diesel exhaust isn't exactly a complaint straight out of left field.

[Tcmetro]

All the buses on the mall are hybrid-electric, and IIRC, they operate entirely in electric mode at low speeds.

[HiawathaGuy]

But complaining about diesel exhaust isn't exactly a complaint straight out of left field.

Yes, it actually is on this stretch of Nicollet Mall downtown!

[FISHMANPET]

I'm not saying it's "right" but people love to base assumptions on experiences so far in the past that they're no longer relevant. So once upon a time it was a problem. Instead of just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "nah nah nah no it's not not it's not" a better rebuttal would be to acknowledge and explain. Yes, in the past there was a lot of diesel exhaust along the Mall, especially during rush hour. But now the buses along the Mall are hybrid and let off much less exhaust, as well as newer engines creating much cleaner emissions.

Don't dismiss the initial assumption, because it's actually grounded in some reality.

But also, I doubt that buses operate all electric on the mall. The Giliig hybrids can't do all electric, period. They still need to run the engine for some stuff. New Flyer makes an amazing hybrid bus that I've ridden that can move without the engine running, but I don't think any hybrid is designed to run without the engine for the mile or two that encompasses the Mall.

[HiawathaGuy]

Don't dismiss the initial assumption, because it's actually grounded in some reality.

I'm speaking freely about my opinion that people are under educated on Nicollet Mall and their beliefs that it's some grimy, nasty, odorous mess. That's hardly me sticking my fingers in my ears saying "No, no, no...".

My point was that all too often people on here and in general tend to exaggerate reality a bit. It's a personal pet peeve of mine, that's all. I just wanted to share my point of view. If people don't want to realize that they are out of touch with current reality or think Minneapolis is some heap of manure, there's nothing I can personally do to change that. Aside from pointing out when I think they are making crazy comments.

[FISHMANPET]

We'll nobody here made that comment, it was someone on the Strib. Like it or not there are people that think wrong things. Often times they're just wrong on their face and not grounded in any kind of reality. But this complaint is. And you're never going to convince someone they're wrong by telling them they're wrong, especially when their wrong opinion is built from a tiny grain of past truth.

[Drizzay]

I believe the smell comes from actual people found on the Mall....not necessarily the Mall itself.

[grant1simons2]

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/268633302.html

We have dates. And some more interesting facts

[seanrichardryan]

Might as well revive the thread.

I'm still not sold on the 'street as woods' concept. It seems...silly. Good consistent streetscaping and landcaping across Nicollet, Hennepin, and the side streets between would have been a better value. Instead, we will have yet another paving material, lighting design, 'art shelters' and such, but no good downtown identity as a whole.

[grant1simons2]

It's the design phase, sounds like they might use some public opinion, if I were you I would e-mail. Nicollet needs updating that's for sure, growing city needs a growing pedestrian area.

[helsinki]

If there is one design element they could incorporate that would make the street feel very pedestrian friendly, in my opinion it would be to eliminate curbs. The preliminary renderings suggest that they already intend to denote different street functions through the use of different surface materials. Given this, it's not really much of a leap to get rid of the grade differential. As long as there is proper storm water drainage, of course (nobody likes walking through puddles).

Anyone who has walked on such a street will testify to the difference it makes for the pedestrian: it really is night and day.

[EOst]

"Why can't buses go away on the Mall? Snow said discussions are ongoing to minimize bus traffic on the Mall, especially if streetcars come into play. Transit shelters will serve both bus and streetcar users."

This is by far the most interesting tidbit from that story. A Mall (or, well, Mile) with only Streetcars would be a marvelous sight.

[Nathan]

"Why can't buses go away on the Mall? Snow said discussions are ongoing to minimize bus traffic on the Mall, especially if streetcars come into play. Transit shelters will serve both bus and streetcar users."

This is by far the most interesting tidbit from that story. A Mall (or, well, Mile) with only Streetcars would be a marvelous sight.

ibelieve thats because the other streets are also at bus capacity

[ECtransplant]

Then maybe we need to invest in higher capacity transit infrastructure

[David Greene]

This is by far the most interesting tidbit from that story. A Mall (or, well, Mile) with only Streetcars would be a marvelous sight.

What is so wrong with buses, especially the hybrids they run now? This no buses on the Mall call has always seemed a bit classist to me.

If Nicollet Mall is to be the retail center of the city we want to bring people there!

[jennifat]

This is by far the most interesting tidbit from that story. A Mall (or, well, Mile) with only Streetcars would be a marvelous sight.

If Nicollet Mall is to be the retail center of the city we want to bring people there!

Cross streets cut through Nicollet Mall at every single block. The mall is served by a light rail station. Why do buses specifically need to belch their way down what should really be a vehicle-free street?

[ECtransplant]

Also, as a daily bus rider, I wish they'd move the buses from the mall because the buses are painfully slow on the mall. It's quicker to walk from Nicollet and 7th to Hennepin and take the 6 than to take the 17 from Nicollet and 7th going to uptown.

[grant1simons2]

If Nicollet Mall is to be the retail center of the city we want to bring people there!

This is going to sound snarky and maybe a bit pretentious but the type of people who they want in the Mile are only rich shoppers. They will be much more enticed by a streetcar that they can get on at lake street and go up the streets. The streetcar could also re-develop the southern parts of Nicollet outside of DT, because outside of Eat Street, Nicollet can be.. Interesting

[Nick]

Who here has been on Nicollet Mall in the past five years? *raises hand* The Nicollet Mall routes have been using hybrid buses for years, they belch considerably less smoke than people smoking cigarettes on the sidewalks and make considerably less noise than the street preachers.

[Snelbian]

Yep. While a streetcar down an otherwise ped-only street can be really wonderful (Istikal in Istanbul comes to mind), the hybrid buses really aren't much of an issue anymore. In fact, just save the money, skip the streetcar, and have the buses mingle with pedestrians.