Nicollet Mall

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
BBMplsMN
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 155
Joined: August 21st, 2015, 3:09 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby BBMplsMN » February 6th, 2020, 9:18 am

Not sure where to post this, but it does feature the Nicollet project as an example. It's a story on comparing renderings to the reality of the finished project.

https://www.fox9.com/news/art-of-the-de ... pectations

SurlyLHT
Foshay Tower
Posts: 976
Joined: February 21st, 2017, 3:50 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby SurlyLHT » February 6th, 2020, 1:09 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing some restrictions on the renderings. Some of them look like they're out of a movie or etc. With that said the City Office building seems to match pretty well so far. Thrivent actually looks better than the renderings. Nicollet..well...long story

Qhaberl
Foshay Tower
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Joined: February 25th, 2016, 9:51 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Qhaberl » February 6th, 2020, 1:36 pm

We have definitely seen some examples of renderings that pretty closely match what was actually built, but we’ve definitely seen examples of renderings that don’t match at all. I think developers need to be held more accountable to the renderings.

I’ve gotten used to the whole Nicollet Mall re-design thing, but I’m still not the biggest fan. I don’t think it really looks much like with the renderings illustrated. It would have been so cool to have the stairway is going up to the skyway at seventh Street. During the summer, I would’ve definitely hung out there and watched people.

could this be an instance where a form based code would be more helpful. Developers would have a specific form that they must stick to. It would put more emphasis on the physical appearance of a building or a street layout, as opposed to the uses of that street. A form based code is very much based on pictures and illustrations.




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John
Capella Tower
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Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby John » February 6th, 2020, 10:32 pm

Sometimes a building looks better than the rendering , other times not so great. One thing I've noticed over the years is how frequently proposals for landscape architecture /park projects fall short of the expectations from the renderings. A lot of the issue comes down to the reality of budgetary constraints. That was definitely the case for both the renovation of Nicollet Mall and the recent Commons park project by the stadium.

Austinite
Metrodome
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Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » September 10th, 2020, 3:59 pm

Just curious what people's thought are about Nicollet now that it seems the greening has taken root. Of course not much activity currently but overall appearance?

grrdanko
Nicollet Mall
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Joined: December 21st, 2014, 3:14 pm
Location: Downtown

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby grrdanko » September 10th, 2020, 8:23 pm

Just curious what people's thought are about Nicollet now that it seems the greening has taken root. Of course not much activity currently but overall appearance?
Nicollet Mall makes me sad right now. As far as the greening goes they removed all the landscaping rocks around the trees and replaced them with wood chips. This is causing many to the tree trunks to rot. I'd be willing to wager that many of the trees will be dead by next spring. It also causes a smell when used as a frequent urinal.

Austinite
Metrodome
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Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » September 21st, 2020, 11:49 am

When I was just back in town thought for the most part the greening looks really good. The roughest areas where in the middle where the plantings in the planters were obviously damaged during the riots/protests and the people continue to let animals into the planting beds around trees. Really don't understand why the city didn't include some type of low fencing in these areas. The ends of the Nicollet looked the best.

Austinite
Metrodome
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Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » October 8th, 2020, 12:14 pm

Holiday Lighting - any news if the DID/city are going to up lighting this year? There were numerous complaints the last few years about no lighting on the trees. I had contacted DID myself and they said the didn't have the ability to put up lighting - no outlets in the bedding areas. Now that they replaced the uplighting, they also installed outlets. Really hope people push them to put up some holiday lighting and decorations this year.

Austinite
Metrodome
Posts: 96
Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » October 12th, 2020, 4:20 pm

Holiday Lighting - any news if the DID/city are going to up lighting this year? There were numerous complaints the last few years about no lighting on the trees. I had contacted DID myself and they said the didn't have the ability to put up lighting - no outlets in the bedding areas. Now that they replaced the uplighting, they also installed outlets. Really hope people push them to put up some holiday lighting and decorations this year.
So I heard back from the Mpls. DID and was informed there will be lighting in the trees from Grant to 12th, and then from 5th to Washington. They will again be putting on a light and sound show in the mid-blocks where the art lanterns and light walk are. At least it's something. Hoping Greening Mpls. will put up some lighting in Peavey.

Austinite
Metrodome
Posts: 96
Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » October 15th, 2020, 9:43 am

Holiday Lighting - any news if the DID/city are going to up lighting this year? There were numerous complaints the last few years about no lighting on the trees. I had contacted DID myself and they said the didn't have the ability to put up lighting - no outlets in the bedding areas. Now that they replaced the uplighting, they also installed outlets. Really hope people push them to put up some holiday lighting and decorations this year.
So I heard back from the Mpls. DID and was informed there will be lighting in the trees from Grant to 12th, and then from 5th to Washington. They will again be putting on a light and sound show in the mid-blocks where the art lanterns and light walk are. At least it's something. Hoping Greening Mpls. will put up some lighting in Peavey.
Yep. Lights in Peavey too!

seanrichardryan
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby seanrichardryan » October 16th, 2020, 8:06 am

I hope they're multi-colored and not just plain white. Give it some personality DID!
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

Austinite
Metrodome
Posts: 96
Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » October 23rd, 2020, 5:41 pm

At this point - anything is better than nothing! Since Holidazzle is going to be virtual - wonder if they will just use their lights. Really would love the city come up with something unique for Nicollet. Utilize the banner light posts - attach some cool lighted decorations...perhaps inspired by the decorations used in the 20-50's. Something perhaps nostalgic.

SurlyLHT
Foshay Tower
Posts: 976
Joined: February 21st, 2017, 3:50 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby SurlyLHT » November 12th, 2020, 7:01 pm

Occurrences like this have to stop. Everything we talk about on this forum is nil with events like this. (From the Mpls Scanner on FB.)

MINNEAPOLIS - 900 NICOLLET MALL - ONGOING DISTURBANCE AND FIGHTS. MALE WAS IN THE STORE IN THE ENTRY WAY MACING PEOPLE, SEVERAL FIGHTS BROKE OUT AND A GUN WAS DROPPED BY SOMEONE AND REPORTED TO HAVE BEEN RECOVERED. MPD JUST GOT WORD FROM A BUSINESS OWNER THAT THERE IS A RUMOR GOING AROUND THAT THERE WAS A OIS (OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING) THIS IS A FALSE RUMOR.
TRANSIT AND MPD ARE STILL ON SCENE DEALING WITH VARIOUS FIGHTS BREAKING OUT BETWEEN 8TH AND 9TH ST ON NIC MALL AND LASALLE AVE.

twinkess
Target Field
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Joined: November 26th, 2012, 10:46 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby twinkess » November 12th, 2020, 8:02 pm

The idea we can abolish or reduce the size of the police department is insane. So is the idea that policing doesn't need reform. There are too many bad people, and too many bad cops. Something like a licensure board requirement for police, increased education requirements and an increased salary seem like good starting ideas.

TroyGBiv
US Bank Plaza
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Joined: July 6th, 2012, 10:33 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby TroyGBiv » November 14th, 2020, 7:12 pm

The idea we can abolish or reduce the size of the police department is insane. So is the idea that policing doesn't need reform. There are too many bad people, and too many bad cops. Something like a licensure board requirement for police, increased education requirements and an increased salary seem like good starting ideas.
Agreed!

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1861
Joined: October 31st, 2014, 12:50 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby amiller92 » November 17th, 2020, 11:45 am

The idea we can abolish or reduce the size of the police department is insane. So is the idea that policing doesn't need reform. There are too many bad people, and too many bad cops. Something like a licensure board requirement for police, increased education requirements and an increased salary seem like good starting ideas.
They are already licensed (by the state I think).

But what's going on downtown these days has nothing to do with police. It's a lack of people.

alexschief
US Bank Plaza
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Location: Philadelphia

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby alexschief » November 17th, 2020, 1:05 pm

The idea we can abolish or reduce the size of the police department is insane. So is the idea that policing doesn't need reform. There are too many bad people, and too many bad cops. Something like a licensure board requirement for police, increased education requirements and an increased salary seem like good starting ideas.
I think the problem for Minneapolis is that they have basically already done a lot of the things that you are supposed to do. Police officers are licensed. Use of force procedures have been heavily modified. Body cameras have been implemented. Officers have gotten lots of specialized training. Minneapolis was actually one of only six cities in the country that was part of a pilot program, called the "National Initiative for Building Community Trust and Justice" in which every police officer received several days worth of new training on implicit bias, procedural justice, and other issues. You could've argued that the city was really a national leader in police reform.

If you've got a fresh idea about how to reform the existing police force, you should let your councilmember know. My bet is that it's already been tried. I think many people don't know how far Minneapolis has already gone to reform the MPD, and how little it seems to have mattered. The fact that two of the four cops who killed George Floyd were new to the force, having gone through some of the best training in the country, and still were frozen and unable to intervene really speaks (to me at least) to the depth of culture issues in the department and the impossibility of simply achieving change through tweaks to training and internal policies. (Also the fact that four officers responded to a simple issue of a counterfeit bill being discovered suggests that the Department is not using its manpower efficiently and could make economies, rather than asking for more money and more officers).

Nicollet Mall is actually a pretty good example of some of the nuances of this public safety debate. The issues on Nicollet rarely rise to the level of serious violence that requires an armed police response. What's been going on is most clearly a result of the coronavirus pandemic and the lack of people downtown. But you could easily see a reformed Minneapolis public safety approach which uses a specialized group of outreach workers to help reach the people demonstrating anti-social behavior downtown, while a smaller number of armed police officers is freed to actually root out the people who are committing serious crimes.

Anyway, nobody is going to abolish the MPD, but I do think there are a bunch of CM's, possibly a majority, possibly not, who would like to reduce the size of the MPD but probably not reduce the size of law enforcement overall. Just break out the different types of emergency responses and create more specialized groups to handle them, while refocusing the MPD to responding to and investigating more serious crimes.

uptownbro
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 167
Joined: February 10th, 2020, 11:00 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby uptownbro » November 17th, 2020, 1:20 pm

Its very hard to judge how much of an impact the changes have had or not had given the power structure of the union. All of the changes and reforms are great but if you don’t remove the one and truly only road block you can’t fairly judge reform efforts since the union has even at times told cops to ignore said reforms.
Downtowns biggest issue is covid. Its keeping workers and people who come from games and entertainment away as well as causing massive economic issues for many individuals and until people go back to the office and the economy recovers downtown will suffer.
Last edited by uptownbro on November 17th, 2020, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NickP
Rice Park
Posts: 436
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 5:00 pm

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby NickP » November 17th, 2020, 1:43 pm

The idea we can abolish or reduce the size of the police department is insane. So is the idea that policing doesn't need reform. There are too many bad people, and too many bad cops. Something like a licensure board requirement for police, increased education requirements and an increased salary seem like good starting ideas.
I think the problem for Minneapolis is that they have basically already done a lot of the things that you are supposed to do. Police officers are licensed. Use of force procedures have been heavily modified. Body cameras have been implemented. Officers have gotten lots of specialized training. Minneapolis was actually one of only six cities in the country that was part of a pilot program, called the "National Initiative for Building Community Trust and Justice" in which every police officer received several days worth of new training on implicit bias, procedural justice, and other issues. You could've argued that the city was really a national leader in police reform.

If you've got a fresh idea about how to reform the existing police force, you should let your councilmember know. My bet is that it's already been tried. I think many people don't know how far Minneapolis has already gone to reform the MPD, and how little it seems to have mattered. The fact that two of the four cops who killed George Floyd were new to the force, having gone through some of the best training in the country, and still were frozen and unable to intervene really speaks (to me at least) to the depth of culture issues in the department and the impossibility of simply achieving change through tweaks to training and internal policies. (Also the fact that four officers responded to a simple issue of a counterfeit bill being discovered suggests that the Department is not using its manpower efficiently and could make economies, rather than asking for more money and more officers).

Nicollet Mall is actually a pretty good example of some of the nuances of this public safety debate. The issues on Nicollet rarely rise to the level of serious violence that requires an armed police response. What's been going on is most clearly a result of the coronavirus pandemic and the lack of people downtown. But you could easily see a reformed Minneapolis public safety approach which uses a specialized group of outreach workers to help reach the people demonstrating anti-social behavior downtown, while a smaller number of armed police officers is freed to actually root out the people who are committing serious crimes.

Anyway, nobody is going to abolish the MPD, but I do think there are a bunch of CM's, possibly a majority, possibly not, who would like to reduce the size of the MPD but probably not reduce the size of law enforcement overall. Just break out the different types of emergency responses and create more specialized groups to handle them, while refocusing the MPD to responding to and investigating more serious crimes.
That part ^^^^
Thank you for articulating this so well.

Austinite
Metrodome
Posts: 96
Joined: August 10th, 2020, 9:50 am

Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby Austinite » November 17th, 2020, 7:45 pm

Hmmmm - the increase in violence downtown has been mounting for several years - warehouse district/Hennepin Avenue late at night/early mornings, aggressive panhandling and public intoxication on Nicollet...all increasing before COVID and before everything shut down and left downtown. Some of these may not have been considered "crimes" or "violent", but they did contribute to increasing perceptions of lack of public safety and the city really didn't do much at the time to address it except add extra police/sheriff county deputies to patrol the streets who whenever I saw them, were glued to one spot, basically chatting with one another and not doing anything.


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