Nicollet Mall

[helsinki]

You won't get the public street to skyway connection that is really needed until you clear out the bums and make it safe to do so. That's been the narrative from the building owners for over 30 years.

And for 30 years, that's been a really silly argument. The homeless who spend all day downtown know how to get in and out of the skyways. They even know where they can spend the night out of view of a security camera.

It's people without the time or inclination to explore that are kept out of the skyways by the lack of connections, and those are exactly the people the building owners claim to want to attract.

Exactly; the gripe about homelessness has always rung hollow. I'm sure homeless people use the skyway system all the time and nobody really seems to mind.

The whole discussion is ridiculous anyway, given how few homeless people there really are downtown. As far as I know, there is not a single place downtown where there is such a critical mass of homeless people that the atmosphere is truly uncomfortable. Cities like Atlanta, Los Angeles, and of course San Francisco have this problem in earnest in their downtowns. Minneapolis doesn't.

[min-chi-cbus]

"Clear out the bums?" I'm not going to take social justice / equity angle because that would just be too easy. But I've spent plenty of time on Nicollet Mall over the years, and I've never felt threatened by "bums" even when I was a high school punk growing up in the distant burbs. Sure, I've seen some shouting matches between cars and people at bus stops, and I've seen that hate group that shows up Friday nights with their loudspeaker, etc. But folks that are just hanging out on the street, maybe with a sign, maybe not, don't seem to be a problem.

I couldn't agree more! If homeless people, or people begging make you uncomfortable - that says more about you, than it does about them.

It's one thing to not mind them, it's another thing entirely to advocate on their behalf....that's PC to the extreme!

[LakeCharles]

It's extreme to advocate for the downtrodden? That ought to be a mainstream position.

[robotlollipop]

Would love this argument to be moved somewhere else.

[grant1simons2]

Can someone help me understand why they're lifting the pavers out and filling in asphalt in some parts of the mall? I've seen it happening all along Nicollet today.

[Nick]

I think they're doing prep work for the 2040 rebuild

[kyl]

I honestly think this project will be a waste of my tax money. The demographics in the renditions do not represent reality. I can't imagine a white woman working on her laptop after dark outside of the Gap store. Nicollet Mall is a bus lane and it will remain so after millions is spent. The growth of North Loop is organic, but I don't see how putting up trees, outdoor seatings and mundane art display will bring people to Nicollet Mall during the weekend unless you're there for bus transfer. You need nice restaurants and stores to draw people in. I doubt a new Walgreens would help. People living in the north end of downtown will continue to head towards the river, instead of the outdoor seatings along a bus lane. People who will take advantage of the new seatings on Nicollet Mall will continue to be the same group of people today.

I absolutely don't understand why I would be assessed for the reconstruction of a street that I rarely use. I'm all for building up downtown, but I think this project is a total waste.

[grant1simons2]

I don't trust many people who start their arguments with, "this project will be a waste of my tax money" or "this is a waste of tax payer money." I get that you don't like getting taxed, I'm sorry that our world needs money for projects that are pretty routine for every 30 years and beautify an outdated area. There are already people on Nicollet Mall during the weekend so I really don't know what you're talking about there. I agree that stores and restaurants are needed to draw people in, but updated areas with nice trees and public art displays draw in those stores and restaurants which draw... you get the point. Have you looked at Peavey Plaza lately? Or the IDS parklot? Seating areas are popping up downtown and people, yes business people and residents, are using them. It's a system people see in movies, on tv and really in other big cities so they want it for themselves. Is it really a bad thing to give people seating? Even if it's a class of people you don't entirely like for outdated reasons that are almost entirely pointless?

[beige_box]

OK so why isn't the city spending $50 million to "update" West Broadway?

[Anondson]

Why isn't the city spending $50 million "updating" Yale Place?

[acs]

Move the buses to 3rd permanently it makes too much sense...

[go4guy]

I honestly think this project will be a waste of my tax money. The demographics in the renditions do not represent reality. I can't imagine a white woman working on her laptop after dark outside of the Gap store. Nicollet Mall is a bus lane and it will remain so after millions is spent. The growth of North Loop is organic, but I don't see how putting up trees, outdoor seatings and mundane art display will bring people to Nicollet Mall during the weekend unless you're there for bus transfer. You need nice restaurants and stores to draw people in. I doubt a new Walgreens would help. People living in the north end of downtown will continue to head towards the river, instead of the outdoor seatings along a bus lane. People who will take advantage of the new seatings on Nicollet Mall will continue to be the same group of people today.

I absolutely don't understand why I would be assessed for the reconstruction of a street that I rarely use. I'm all for building up downtown, but I think this project is a total waste.

Why does it matter if it is white woman? Why can't you just say you cant picture a person on a laptop after dark.

[David Greene]

To be fair, women (not just white) do have extra concerns about safety that men don't have. And rightly so.

[kyl]

I don't trust many people who start their arguments with, "this project will be a waste of my tax money" or "this is a waste of tax payer money." I get that you don't like getting taxed, I'm sorry that our world needs money for projects that are pretty routine for every 30 years and beautify an outdated area. There are already people on Nicollet Mall during the weekend so I really don't know what you're talking about there. I agree that stores and restaurants are needed to draw people in, but updated areas with nice trees and public art displays draw in those stores and restaurants which draw... you get the point. Have you looked at Peavey Plaza lately? Or the IDS parklot? Seating areas are popping up downtown and people, yes business people and residents, are using them. It's a system people see in movies, on tv and really in other big cities so they want it for themselves. Is it really a bad thing to give people seating? Even if it's a class of people you don't entirely like for outdated reasons that are almost entirely pointless?

What not to trust? It's my hard-earned money. I don't know how you earn your paychecks. I trust myself that I work really hard for them, and I don't want my tax money to be misused just because the city says so. Nicollet Mall is a place for business workers during the week, so I have no problem businesses pick up the reconstruction tab if they want a better work environment for their workers, but I don't understand why I should subsidize businesses on and around Nicollet Mall. Have you ever walked down Nicollet Mall on a Sat/Sun evening? I did this past Sunday. There was a scream-fest going on between people.

"It's a system people see in movies, on tv and really in other big cities so they want it for themselves"??? Are you living in reality?? Or, are you fantasizing "When Harry met Sally?" I walked past Nic on Mall, and I didn't see any of the residents romanticizing Nicollet Mall. I know there will be a few more residential buildings in the north end of Nicollet Mall, but how do you compete the new pricey outdoor seatings and mundane art display on Nicollet Mall with the mighty Mississippi or the quaint North Loop? Nicollet Mall residents in the north end will still continue to head towards the river if they need a breadth of fresh outdoor air. Nicollet Mall will remain a public transport transit hub after millions is spent. Scream-fests will remain.

I have no problem if the city spends money in areas where residents go and enjoy their weekends. I have no problem if the city spends money on an iconic art piece like the Bean in Chicago, but I didn't see anything spectacular in those renditions. All I saw was misrepresentation of the demographics of Nicollet Mall during a weekend. Nicollet Mall will still be like most downtown streets where no white women would work on her laptop after dark.

[kyl]

I honestly think this project will be a waste of my tax money. The demographics in the renditions do not represent reality. I can't imagine a white woman working on her laptop after dark outside of the Gap store. Nicollet Mall is a bus lane and it will remain so after millions is spent. The growth of North Loop is organic, but I don't see how putting up trees, outdoor seatings and mundane art display will bring people to Nicollet Mall during the weekend unless you're there for bus transfer. You need nice restaurants and stores to draw people in. I doubt a new Walgreens would help. People living in the north end of downtown will continue to head towards the river, instead of the outdoor seatings along a bus lane. People who will take advantage of the new seatings on Nicollet Mall will continue to be the same group of people today.

I absolutely don't understand why I would be assessed for the reconstruction of a street that I rarely use. I'm all for building up downtown, but I think this project is a total waste.

Why does it matter if it is white woman? Why can't you just say you cant picture a person on a laptop after dark.

I know people will question that, but all I want is to make my point. The demographics in those Nicollet Mall renditions misrepresent the reality of Nicollet Mall after dark when all the business workers have gone home. 95% of the people in the renditions are white, which does not represent reality, and it makes me question why they did that. What kind of message are they sending? What's the reason behind the misrepresentation?

If City of New York is trying to renovate Chinatown, will they use renditions with 95% white people?

[Anondson]

There is an epidemic of architectural drawings that show what is hoped to become rather than what it was from before. Call the news!

But yes, we were missing the drawing from 2am on Sunday. We were duped!

[sushisimo]

no white women would work on her laptop after dark.

This is quickly becoming my favorite thing since "fetishized Google maps".

[beige_box]

I honestly think this project will be a waste of my tax money. The demographics in the renditions do not represent reality. I can't imagine a white woman working on her laptop after dark outside of the Gap store. Nicollet Mall is a bus lane and it will remain so after millions is spent. The growth of North Loop is organic, but I don't see how putting up trees, outdoor seatings and mundane art display will bring people to Nicollet Mall during the weekend unless you're there for bus transfer. You need nice restaurants and stores to draw people in. I doubt a new Walgreens would help. People living in the north end of downtown will continue to head towards the river, instead of the outdoor seatings along a bus lane. People who will take advantage of the new seatings on Nicollet Mall will continue to be the same group of people today.

I absolutely don't understand why I would be assessed for the reconstruction of a street that I rarely use. I'm all for building up downtown, but I think this project is a total waste.

Why does it matter if it is white woman? Why can't you just say you cant picture a person on a laptop after dark.

I know people will question that, but all I want is to make my point. The demographics in those Nicollet Mall renditions misrepresent the reality of Nicollet Mall after dark when all the business workers have gone home. 95% of the people in the renditions are white, which does not represent reality, and it makes me question why they did that. What kind of message are they sending? What's the reason behind the misrepresentation?

If City of New York is trying to renovate Chinatown, will they use renditions with 95% white people?

Let's stop beating around the bush and unpack the awkward nasty race stuff you've managed to sneak around with so far. You are arguing that:

1) A significant proportion of the people who hang out in Nicollet Mall after hours are non-white.
2) As a result, "people"--a word you use here to mean white people!--instead hang out elsewhere.
3) White women will not use their laptops outside in the vicinity of non-white people.
4) The fact that Nicollet is a bus lane is the reason for non-white people being there.
5) Therefore, Nicollet Mall is some sort of failure.

Outside of point 1 (obviously true, extends to a lot of middle class immigrant families from all sorts of backgrounds), these are racist garbage opinions. Hey moderators what do we do?

That said, I do think $50 million to reconstruct an already over-landscaped part of the city that will bring in hundreds of thousands of people every day either way is a pretty bogus project.

[beige_box]

There is an epidemic of architectural drawings that show what is hoped to become rather than what it was from before. Call the news!

Prominent streets.mn forums commenter attempts to laugh away and normalize the idea of getting black people out of downtown as the goal of Nicollet mall redesign? Sounds like news to me.

[EOst]

I really doubt the guy putting together those renderings spent more than about 1% of his time thinking about the race of the people he inserted from the stock library.