Elliot Park

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Anondson
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby Anondson » October 7th, 2020, 10:39 am


pillsdoughboy
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby pillsdoughboy » February 4th, 2021, 11:55 pm

https://www.startribune.com/a-historic- ... sh=true#13

Strib reporting that the First Church of Christ, Scientist is struggling to stir up any interest among private developers-- rehabilitation on the dilapidated building would come with a $4.2 million price tag. The people behind the new Gatsby Apartments attempted to get permission to demolish but failed. I will admit to having strong preservationist leanings, but I see a lot of beauty and potential in this building and in Elliot Park.

Interested to hear you all's thoughts on this. Personally, I think the very fact that the developers behind Gatsby are bullish enough about the Elliot Park market to ask $1230 for a 545 sqft studio right next door demonstrates that this structure isn't being left to rot due to a lack of demand. There are definitely challenges: $4 million, while not exorbitant, is high in relation to the size of the building. That said, market-rate developments in Elliot Park seem to be doing well.The floor plan may also not be conducive to some uses. But I think the right group will eventually come along and make something great out of this (but hopefully soon before this building's condition deteriorates further).

tab
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby tab » February 5th, 2021, 7:56 am

Seeing the interior photos, the Loring Pasta Bar came to mind.

uptownbro
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby uptownbro » February 5th, 2021, 9:49 am

I had a good friend who lives a block way from this site. There rent was 1200 for a larger one bed room around 750 sqft but in an older but renovated building. It really is a cool building but also I don't know if its worth the money for a developer to restore fully out of pocket. I think a cool complex could be built using it but it would need some level of public money
I really wonder what elliot park will be like in 5-10 years. There has been major investments and developments on the north side along with a few smaller infills.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby SurlyLHT » February 5th, 2021, 12:31 pm

Eliliot Park has something rare in Mpls and the state. An established residential neighborhood Downtown. Unlike North Loop and the Mill District which went from others uses to residential, this has largely been residential and has it's own churches, parks and a college and history. That may be attractive to some.

twincitizen
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby twincitizen » February 6th, 2021, 1:25 am

This may be a bad take, but I have pondered if North Central University is actually holding Elliot Park back at this point. They control a lot of property that would otherwise probably be turning over to higher and better use. Much of that being pretty weak land uses, and 100% of it is tax exempt. I have no idea what their enrollment is or how much their staff/student body have a positive economic impact on the area, so I may be completely off-base here.

No doubt, they’ve been a good user of the area in decades past when there was little demand for much of anything in Elliot Park. Are they still a good fit for the area going forward? Would the school be happier somewhere else, while the neighborhood simultaneously grows and benefits from their departure?

pillsdoughboy
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby pillsdoughboy » February 7th, 2021, 12:28 pm

I have to say, I actually agree to an extent. It doesn't seem like the ~1000 students contribute significantly to Elliot Park's economy (frankly, the school is quite religious, so it doesn't seem like bars/clubs have bloomed around its campus). The campus is tiny at 9 acres, so at least they aren't occupying giants swaths of land, but I agree that those 9 acres could be put to much better use (maybe a more optimal balance of commercial and residential rather than parking structures and athletic fields).

There are also some dorms along Chicago Avenue (Orfield Apartments) that were built in 1893 (source: https://www.apartments.com/orfield-apar ... n/d8jde2j/) that are just BEGGING to have the stucco scraped off of them. I can imagine that NCU isn't exactly rolling in dough, so they don't have the money to properly upkeep some of these historic structures. They look like total eyesores, but I suspect they could really contribute to the neighborhood.

Apologies in advance to those I offend by pointing this out, but the New York Times' "Extremely Detailed Map of the 2020 Election" also shows that Elliot Park (particularly, the southern part right around NCU) had the highest proportion of Trump voters in the City. I would be shocked if NCU had nothing to do with that. At one point I found enrollment data and it seems like the student body seems to be shrinking over the long-term at NCU. Maybe they'll eventually have to sell some of their buildings.

uptownbro
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby uptownbro » February 8th, 2021, 9:23 am

I think its a mixed bag. NCU doesnt bring alot of students or other demand one would expect from a collage near by but it is still a few hundred jobs of that area. Wasn't there a proposal for a new building on that campus last year?
As for the voting im not shocked as it should have some impact on it but that doesnt per say tell the whole story of an areas views.
I used the NYT map on La Crosse WI and the UW campus area was also one of most "pro trump" parts of the city has a whole that biden won by a large margin.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby SurlyLHT » February 8th, 2021, 4:18 pm

This conversation reminds of an antidote from an Economics Professor at Anoka-Ramsey Community College in Coon Rapids. The campus is located on the Mississippi and they paid for an economic impact study. The President wanted to know what he thought of it. He allegedly told them, "The city would be better if they tore down the college and replaced it with something that paid taxes."

Back to NCU

A) I think they stabilize the neighborhood and the additional people help provide safety.


B) Here's their proposal:

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... lding.html

C) Maybe they will sell some of the buildings with more virtual edu. A number of their buildings are old hospital buildings. (I think HCMC just vacated another building as well.)

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby BigIdeasGuy » February 8th, 2021, 4:19 pm

This may be a bad take, but I have pondered if North Central University is actually holding Elliot Park back at this point. They control a lot of property that would otherwise probably be turning over to higher and better use. Much of that being pretty weak land uses, and 100% of it is tax exempt. I have no idea what their enrollment is or how much their staff/student body have a positive economic impact on the area, so I may be completely off-base here.

No doubt, they’ve been a good user of the area in decades past when there was little demand for much of anything in Elliot Park. Are they still a good fit for the area going forward? Would the school be happier somewhere else, while the neighborhood simultaneously grows and benefits from their departure?
I have also thought about Elliot Park and how is will continue to develop in the future and have come to conclusion that there are 2 things that are preventing the area from seeing the type of growth we've seen in other corners of DT.

1. Artificial Walls. EP is effectively walled off from the rest of DT from an enjoyable walk standpoint. 6th & 7th St being busy with 94 traffic along with 4th and 5th Ave with 35 traffic makes it tough to begin with. Then add in HCMC & US Bank Stadium heading north or west is just a rough walk or hard to connect in any real way
2. Institutions. HCMC & North Central dominate the area then toss in Augustana Care those are 3 large institutions taking up blocks of real estate and I think we would all agree that none for them are going to win any architectural awards any time soon or connect with other parts of DT.

I don't think it's unfair to say NCU is one of the things that have held back development in Elliot Park BUT I do think it would be incredibly unfair to solely blame NCU. That said I'm not sure NCU is a bad thing overall. To me the best idea would be continue to encourage housing along Portland then using 10th/14th to connect the rest of the neighborhood.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby SurlyLHT » February 8th, 2021, 4:22 pm

You all are aware that Augstana sold their nursing facility right?

https://www.elliotpark.org/catholiccharities

martykoessel
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby martykoessel » February 9th, 2021, 9:10 am

A couple of comments on this one:

--The Elliot Park neighborhood's biggest disadvantage vis-a-vis other downtown neighborhoods is the bleakness of the blocks between it and the downtown core. It feels more apart than it really is. Also, the neighborhood is relatively poor and feels it. As those bleak blocks are built up, the sense of separation might dwindle, but then gentrification could become a problem. Downtown Minneapolis needs an affordable neighborhood.

--Given the neighborhood's current situation, it's likely a mistake to believe that the disappearance of a major institution would lead to quick replacement with something more dynamic, rather than a longish period of desolation.

--Not long ago, North Central was discussing the construction of a new student center along Chicago. Is that still on? Especially if it is, it doesn't sound like the university is considering pulling up stakes. At a personal level, I was disturbed about the political reason given for wanting them gone. I'm a left-wing liberal at heart, but I don't place a blanket condemnation on all those who strongly disagree with my politics and I mourn the self-segregation we've undergone. If we've got a community of religious conservatives dwelling in our midst, fine! Of course, I wish we could engage better and at least agree on the facts we're arguing about.

Blaisdell Greenway
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby Blaisdell Greenway » February 9th, 2021, 9:24 am

I read the Biz Journals article about the proposed academic building, which led me to this article about East Downtown from December 2015, before "East Town" was invented. https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... ntown.htmlThe Kraus-Anderson and Armory redevelopments had just been announced and HCMC had just broke ground on the new building. Check out these claims:
About 2,000 apartment units have been added in the past two years throughout downtown Minneapolis, pushing the vacancy rate to 7 percent (4 percent for stable buildings open more than a year). Absorption is still strong, but the “cranes are more dispersed” and development activity is shifting to the suburbs, according to a third-quarter market report from Marquette Advisors.

New apartments also require financing, which runs in cycles.

In October, U.S. Bancorp CEO Richard Davis expressed concerns about the U.S. commercial real estate market getting “pretty overheated,” which could be a signal debt will be harder to find in the future.

The multifamily market may be slowing downtown, but there are still projects that appear to be moving ahead.
A reminder of just how far this corner of Minneapolis has come over the last 5 years, and that claims of construction cranes decamping to the suburbs is eternal.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby VacantLuxuries » February 9th, 2021, 3:37 pm

I wish it was possible to write some kind of AI powered browser extension that replaces every random, dog wagging prediction from industry leaders with "made a wild guess."
In October, U.S. Bancorp CEO Richard Davis made a wild guess about the rental market in Minneapolis.
Business owners in Minneapolis made a wild guess about the effect a $15 an hour minimum wage would have on the city.
Business leaders made a wild guess when they predicted the pandemic would lead to the end of city living.

uptownbro
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby uptownbro » February 9th, 2021, 3:52 pm

I do think you are seeing a slow down in the rental markets after 10 years of unprecedented growth and it was bound to happen but one could not have predicted a black swan even like this. I also do think people and the media tend to have way to many hot takes and buzz words. I put as much stock in someone's wild guess as I so a ESPN hosts hot take on kirk cousins. The media grabs the most eye catching quotes, "raising the min wage will kill cities" or "raising the min wage will end poverty in our time". Highly doubtful on both.

alexschief
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby alexschief » February 9th, 2021, 4:20 pm

Really important to understand that right now the housing market is seeing a pretty rare divergence right now in the market price of for-sale and rental properties.

rhettcarlson
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby rhettcarlson » February 28th, 2021, 9:46 pm

East Town Apartments completed. Decent frontage along 9th Ave with walk-up units; pretty horrible frontage on 7th Street with no doors and frosted glass.

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MNdible
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby MNdible » March 1st, 2021, 12:50 pm

If I'm understanding your comment and photos correctly, it looks to be non-frosted glass but with shades drawn. That may be a moot distinction, since I'm guessing any residents in these areas will usually keep their shades closed this close to the sidewalk.

ThunderMN
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby ThunderMN » April 2nd, 2021, 5:05 pm

I look at all the buildings going up in the city and kind of cringe at how many grey and black clad buildings are being built. I know grey is the "it" color, but we live in a climate that is kind of dismal 6 months out of the year where many days are without clear skies and sunshine. A sea of black and grey does not really inspire excitement. I have nothing against the designs of the buildings per say, just the colors being used. With all the different colors in the spectrum available, can't developers use colors that are more warm and inviting? Am I the only one that feels this way about the color schemes being used?

pillsdoughboy
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Re: Elliot Park

Postby pillsdoughboy » April 2nd, 2021, 9:06 pm

^I feel this way about single-family (or smaller complexes) homes in residential parts of the city-- Minneapolis is, in a lot of ways, a hub for culture, art, etc. so I wish we had houses in flamboyant colors to cheer us up in the winter.

In terms of newer, larger developments, I am split. A lot of the newer apartment complexes by the U include more colorful cladding, and I think it's very hit or miss (and a fair amount of them end up being the former). I do like The Whit, which incorporates lime green, on Blaisdell and 22nd!


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