urbanMSP

Just goes to show, they don't build it like they used to, you can't go home again, etc etc. Building techniques change, regulations change. Maybe the world would be a more interning place architecturally if we reverted to a 100 year old building code, got rid of zoning, and ignored pesky laws like the Americans with Disabilities Act, but it would also certainly be a less safe, less equitable world.

I'm very curious how the rates here will compare to other North Loop properties. What kind of incentives will be given to rent out the room with the car wash view / noise?

Access to Target Field / Station is great, but this is otherwise a somewhat remote location. The walk over to Washington Ave and the North Loop restaurant/bar scene is only a few short blocks, but why not just live over there? The rates here would have to be significantly lower for this to make sense, no? Or is the access to transportation and baseball enough to put up with the gas station, bus garage entrance, and garbage burner? That's a whole lot of noise & odor nuisance directly outside your $2.25/sf apartment window...

And if we figure out the difference in rents, we could then do some estimation of how much value could be created with long-term projects to a) remove I-94 ramp viaducts b) remove burner c) encourage more screening of the Holiday gas pumps and car wash.

I'd say that access to transit trumps being a block or two closer to bars and restaurants, personally. Anything under a half mile isn't a bad walk, but the closer you are to transit the better, especially given the fact that some trains run every 30 minutes and you don't want to be 5-10 minutes away from the station in the event you are running late and risk missing your train (I personally find that troublesome, anyways).

It's also just my personal opinion, and I see the benefits to both.

I'm very curious how the rates here will compare to other North Loop properties. What kind of incentives will be given to rent out the room with the car wash view / noise?

Access to Target Field / Station is great, but this is otherwise a somewhat remote location. The walk over to Washington Ave and the North Loop restaurant/bar scene is only a few short blocks, but why not just live over there? The rates here would have to be significantly lower for this to make sense, no? Or is the access to transportation and baseball enough to put up with the gas station, bus garage entrance, and garbage burner? That's a whole lot of noise & odor nuisance directly outside your $2.25/sf apartment window...

But you do get to stumble back across the street from Fulton so...

In all honesty, I don't think the units in the center or away from the car wash that face the viaduct are any worse off than the condos across the viaducts. And those are still fairly expensive, no?

This is actually looking quite decent, too bad its just in an awful location...

too bad its just in an awful location...

but for how long...

This is the question we have to ask ourselves. Can one building reshape an entire area? Will the people who are in the building be able to have the will and power for change?

This is the question we have to ask ourselves. Can one building reshape an entire area? Will the people who are in the building be able to have the will and power for change?

in this area with the two new apartment buildings, target field be the match head quarters, and transit, it isn't an if... Minneapolis is growing and this is the expanding border.

I image that other buildings will continue to go up around it. But that gas station. I would not want to live next to a gas station, especially on busy weekend nights. Traffic, noise, THAT car wash. Maybe not the units overlooking the station anyway.

This is done, right?

This is the question we have to ask ourselves. Can one building reshape an entire area? Will the people who are in the building be able to have the will and power for change?

in this area with the two new apartment buildings, target field be the match head quarters, and transit, it isn't an if... Minneapolis is growing and this is the expanding border.

No doubt this will be a very different area in 10 years with lots of people living and working here to make it feel more like it has a sense of community.

I walked along 5th yesterday and saw all the activity that was going one. I walked past Junction Flats which looks like a great development. But once you get past there you are in a no mans land. There is plenty of land for redeveloping, but there is still a very industrial vibe to the area between JF and 10th Ave. They really need to find a way to get a connection with 8th thru that area. That is a long distance without any cross street.

They really need to find a way to get a connection with 8th thru that area. That is a long distance without any cross street.

I've been harping on this for a while. Looks like it's in Blong Yang's ward, and likely not going to be a priority to him personally. I think it would be best to get the attention of David Frank, who is both Minneapolis' TOD planner and the president of the North Loop Neighborhood Association. The connection is clearly stated in their Small Area Plan, but there is no timeline or funding established. It is effectively not on the City's radar at all. It would be a public works project to acquire the property through eminent domain, and install the street. Certainly no less than a million bucks, perhaps more.

EDIT: My mistake, the 8th Ave N connection would actually be in Wards 3 (Frey) and 5 (Yang). 3rd St to 4th St is in Frey's and 4th St to 5th St (under the viaduct) is in Yang's.

While a full, normal street would be ideal, due to the connections to existing 8th Ave N on both ends, a narrower bicycle and pedestrian path would be acceptable as a "compromise" if it came to that. Cars can travel on 10th Ave N pretty freely today. There is obviously no need from a "capacity" standpoint, so the argument would have to be made that a street connection for vehicles provides some added value. From an urbanism standpoint, breaking up the long monotonous blocks is a huge plus, as is the much needed ped/bike access through the neighborhood.

I'll agree that there does not have to be a full street where 8th is, but there does need to be some connection for pedestrians and bikes to get thru the area. But that will not happen until the current businesses are bought out or sell to a developer. But the city does need to make sure some sort of ROW is put thru that section to keep more connections available to get from the north side of the Viaduct to the side side of it.

too bad its just in an awful location...

but for how long...

It's funny this conversation pops up......A long time ago now I had a theory about real estate demand and value: find the piece of land that is the LEAST desirable today and in the future when a place builds out and it's the last available parcel it will have one of the highest and best uses when it does in fact develop. That theory could hold true (to a degree) for entire cities or neighborhoods or even blocks (in n'hoods where teardowns occur, the lots with the smallest, cheapest homes are torn down first). At some point 20-30 years down the road when the rest of North Loop is completely built out and the next move is to shift north, this block may be one of THE most desirable parcels to develop on. Hell, North Loop and the Warehouse District itself (and the Mills District, Downtown East, etc.) was an undesirable place to be for quite a long time, and now it's white hot! What's the next hot spot? For very obscure places, I'm thinking the industrial area further Northeast bordering St. Paul -- beyond 30 years.

yea i agree with that. i think we'll see those blocks running north slowly develop.