The Commons - Downtown East Park

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
trigonalmayhem

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby trigonalmayhem » August 28th, 2015, 12:55 pm

I like how people who don't like criticism of any of the crappy things going on in this town immediately call for thread locking as soon as anyone brings them up. And yeah I'm sure they'll close half of downtown off for game days so we can pay appropriate tribute to our NFL overlords.

But if you think the only days this park will be used is game days you're a fool. With all the office space and apartments going up it's going to see decent use.

twincitizen
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby twincitizen » August 28th, 2015, 1:21 pm

Another option is to simply ignore some posts and not reply to them.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby HiawathaGuy » August 28th, 2015, 1:26 pm

But if you think the only days this park will be used is game days you're a fool. With all the office space and apartments going up it's going to see decent use.
You're right, this park will be used by many, many people. But it will be used most on days where there are big events at the stadium - because of the agreements signed. I don't think there will ever be more people 'hanging out' at The Commons than already hang out at many of the other City Parks I've mentioned. Perhaps I'll be wrong. Perhaps Portland will be closed at some future point. But for now, it won't be - and I also don't believe SUVs will be crashing into pedestrians. Even during non-event days - traffic is never raging out of control.

Back to topic - anyone want to wager a guess as to when the Strib building will be completely demolished?
I say Sept. 18th.

J2K
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby J2K » August 28th, 2015, 1:48 pm

It looks like they are trying to save the trees from the Trib's pocket park. Has that been confirmed? I would love those mature trees to stay!

Wedgeguy
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Wedgeguy » August 28th, 2015, 2:28 pm

Portland is staying open, get over it, end of story. If not, then lock this pages until the work starts so we can deal only with what is actually going to happen.
Maybe because the games are on a weekend when the normal city traffic is not using the street for people to get around! Please lock,
Yeah, don't criticize stupid decisions about a controversial park on an urbanism forum because they have already been made and can never be changed. Please only talk about the actual design/construction which has NOTHING to do with streets that run through it.

On a related note, does anyone know the status of the Kmart on Nicollet? Asking for a friend...

Please lock!
AS noted, This is a rehash of a rehash of a rehash from last year and the first part of this year. I'm sure it will be complained about for 5 years after the park is open too! So lets fill another 15 pages of the SOS!

Archiapolis
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Archiapolis » August 29th, 2015, 8:35 pm

Portland is staying open, get over it, end of story. If not, then lock this pages until the work starts so we can deal only with what is actually going to happen.
Maybe because the games are on a weekend when the normal city traffic is not using the street for people to get around! Please lock,
Yeah, don't criticize stupid decisions about a controversial park on an urbanism forum because they have already been made and can never be changed. Please only talk about the actual design/construction which has NOTHING to do with streets that run through it.

On a related note, does anyone know the status of the Kmart on Nicollet? Asking for a friend...

Please lock!
AS noted, This is a rehash of a rehash of a rehash from last year and the first part of this year. I'm sure it will be complained about for 5 years after the park is open too! So lets fill another 15 pages of the SOS!
Yes, I get it. I know that hyperbole isn't for everyone. We can move on but please understand that it's possible that some of the ire directed at the decision to leave Portland open is related to decision-making that CAN change with engagement.

If it is acceptable to you to just shrug your shoulders every time a decision is sub-optimal then that is fine-for you. But, don't expect everyone else to capitulate as easy. When "the county" (or any other decision-making body) says "no" based on some flimsy argument, that doesn't have to be the end of it, IF people are willing to fight for a better outcome by pushing the mayor's office, the city council, the governor or whoever is also at the table.

I understand that Portland is open (for now), but criticizing that fact can keep it in people's minds that bad decisions were made and that we should fight for something better NEXT time.

Last point: I'm not a mod (lucky for some) so I have no say in the matter but trying to move every criticism leveled at the politics behind an issue to a "Politics of Project X" forum is a slippery slope. God forbid that some kid gets harmed dashing across Portland because "Hey, those water jets over their look just like these that I'm currently playing in so this space must be continuous!" you can be sure that it won't be so easy to parse the forum into "design", "construction" and "politics" because there will be blame to go around and voices to be heard.

Before I get shredded for the previous statement, I am not "rooting" for harm to befall anyone so the "Close Portland" crowd can be" right." I have two kids and wish no harm to come to anyone. I'm trying to illustrate that there are "design issues" at play here that are a result of politics. I could argue that the biggest design "flaw" to this project is the pains taken to make these blocks feel like a continuous, unbroken space which it most certainly is not but most of the blame for this flaw can be laid directly at the feet of "the county." It would be disingenuous to limit such an argument to James Corner Field Operations without acknowledging the real flaw - a "park" that is bisected by a working street which was a political decision.

Thank you for engaging.

trigonalmayhem

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby trigonalmayhem » August 30th, 2015, 11:14 am

Maybe some of us weren't here a year or two ago when you last had this discussion. And maybe some people, as arch was saying above, refuse to just accept every bad decision. People here seem to be really into accepting the status quo and not putting up a stink. Bad decisions aren't permanent but they will be if you shut up and accept it. Which too many people seem to do, really. So yeah, I won't shut up about it just because you already talked about it and consider the matter closed. It's only closed if cowards refuse to keep bringing it up until it's fixed.

Wedgeguy
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Wedgeguy » August 30th, 2015, 11:17 am

Maybe some of us weren't here a year or two ago when you last had this discussion. And maybe some people, as arch was saying above, refuse to just accept every bad decision. People here seem to be really into accepting the status quo and not putting up a stink. Bad decisions aren't permanent but they will be if you shut up and accept it. Which too many people seem to do, really. So yeah, I won't shut up about it just because you already talked about it and consider the matter closed. It's only closed if cowards refuse to keep bringing it up until it's fixed.
Please start on page one and you will learn the same thing over and over again. I'm sure you will find it a good read and reread!

trigonalmayhem

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby trigonalmayhem » August 30th, 2015, 11:27 am

Well I'm just so sorry you have to read something more than once. Your poor eyes must be so tired from constantly giving up on everything.

grant1simons2
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby grant1simons2 » August 30th, 2015, 11:57 am

Actually we're more so tired of the amount of times we argue about the same topic over and over again in the same thread. It's a reoccurring issue, literally.

trigonalmayhem

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby trigonalmayhem » August 30th, 2015, 12:02 pm

So everyone is supposed to just shut up because something was discussed in the past and others are tired of hearing about it? If you're tired of arguing about something just don't participate. I'm glad some people aren't in charge of what is and isn't acceptable to discuss because the one and done approach is stupid. If something remains a contentious enough issue to continue coming up, you can't pretend your past discussion was the end of it. Realty disagrees and trying to shut other people up because you're tired of hearing their complaints is burying your head in the sand. It's like the people who think they're really progressive until a protest inconveniences them and then they turn on the protestors.

grant1simons2
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby grant1simons2 » August 30th, 2015, 12:17 pm

The fact is we like to have peaceful conversations on the forum, and sometimes that's rare. There are certain topics that when brought back up, people see it as their time to argue the hell out of it. Just suggesting you look back at what people have said about this project so we don't hear the same thing over and over again. Participation is welcome, but it's kind of like at a city meeting when they want the public to chime in. One guy can give his reasons why he doesn't like it, but if there are 9 others all saying the same thing, the city gets the point. Well on here, after about a solid week of people arguing back and forth on the topic of Portland, we were happy to see it kind of die down. So when it gets brought back up, people kind of groan and think, "Not again."

EOst
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby EOst » August 30th, 2015, 12:19 pm

Man, what are you actually trying to accomplish? No one here is confused about these issues; no one here disputes that an ideal world would have Portland closed. Complaining about it here isn't going to change that, it only makes the thread tedious for everyone else.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby FISHMANPET » August 30th, 2015, 1:36 pm

If you have new ideas to present then by all means post, but repeating the same ideas over and over gets old (and I'm saying that as someone whose gotten caught up in these circular never ending arguments).

acs
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby acs » August 30th, 2015, 1:36 pm

I've been trying to write the county about the Portland issue, but never having never written them I can't find out who to contact and how. The website is so confusing compared to emailing my CM for the city.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Silophant » August 30th, 2015, 1:46 pm

Here's the Hennepin County district map. The emails pop up below the Commissioner's photo when you click on your district.



As an aside, you know what's more annoying than rehashing an old argument? Arguing about people rehashing an old argument.
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby alleycat » September 1st, 2015, 9:33 pm

Image

Back side of the Star Tribune Building torn up. Starting demo on the corner closest to the Wells Fargo buildings today.
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Rich
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Rich » September 14th, 2015, 9:27 am

Now might be a good time to note how disruptive the removal of Portland would be, because it looks like it's closed.

http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.c ... 298F7B8EF9

helsinki
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby helsinki » September 14th, 2015, 10:30 am

Not exactly gridlock, is it?

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby amiller92 » September 14th, 2015, 10:35 am

Not exactly gridlock, is it?
It was closed this weekend, but it was not completely closed during rush hour this morning. I think two lanes were open, and there actually was some stacking going on of cars trying to get through.

I turned right on 3rd instead of trying to take a lane in the mess, as the bike lane was completely blocked, while watching an SUV aggressively try to pass the car in front of him in the intersection. I guess maybe he was frustrated with the car refusing to block the box?


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