Minneapolis Post Office

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Wedgeguy
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Wedgeguy » March 31st, 2015, 12:19 pm

not sure where people are so bent about public transportation and being away from the light rail. There is skyways from the Nicollet station to the Churchhill that would require less than a block from the retail area to the east main down. Not much different than walking to the convention center.

GrowMPLS

Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby GrowMPLS » March 31st, 2015, 1:28 pm

not sure where people are so bent about public transportation and being away from the light rail. There is skyways from the Nicollet station to the Churchhill that would require less than a block from the retail area to the east main down. Not much different than walking to the convention center.
Because people are LAZY....you need to make it easy for them.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Wedgeguy » March 31st, 2015, 1:34 pm

Why we have an obscene obesity rate in this country!! Get off our fat asses and move more!!

EOst
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby EOst » March 31st, 2015, 1:46 pm

Shaming people about their weight is definitely the way to get them to spend more time downtown.

Archiapolis
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Archiapolis » March 31st, 2015, 2:07 pm

Shaming people about their weight is definitely the way to get them to spend more time downtown.
-1

Didier
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Didier » March 31st, 2015, 2:20 pm

Isn't there a gondola that will be stopping here soon according to a rendering?

uncle phil
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby uncle phil » March 31st, 2015, 8:32 pm

Because people are LAZY....you need to make it easy for them.
Exactly. There are plenty of people who will circle and circle a parking lot looking for a spot close to the door, not just at Target, but at the health club!

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby xandrex » April 1st, 2015, 9:35 am

Also being only 5 blocks away is not that far. During cold weather there is the skyway that is just one street crossing short so it could be easily accessed during the cold weather already, better so if one more skyway connection was created.
I dunno, it's a half mile roughly from the post office to Nicollet Mall station. That's a not insignificant amount given that we generally promote only 1/4 mile spacing for transit stops as the ideal. It's not so much that it's particularly far, but that it's mentally far.

A few people have mentioned Washington being the barrier and cited a transit "cut off," but anyone who has to cross the river to get home rather than the 94 trench (yeah, that's you, Southsiders) knows that transit doesn't really cut off before Washington. The issue is that there's nothing there north of Washington. Who's going to randomly stumble by a food market or the like when it's otherwise surrounded by boring, wide streets that are mostly filled with residential towers. First Street between Hennepin and Third Avenue just might be one of the most drab streets downtown.

sushisimo
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby sushisimo » April 1st, 2015, 10:15 am

First Street between Hennepin and Third Avenue just might be one of the most drab streets downtown.
True, but that's exactly where this market would be and would probably turn it around quite a bit. And I don't get the whole mental barrier thing. The post office is in the center of four burgeoning neighborhoods: Downtown core, Mill District, Northeast, and North Loop. So how are people flocking to those areas but having panic attacks getting to the P.O.? Washington does suck, but how much of a hothouse flower do you have to be to have it push you away from somewhere you want to go?

fehler
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby fehler » April 1st, 2015, 10:18 am

I would love to have the parkway level of the Post Office opened up, with possible shops/stands in the columns, to create a better connection between the Stone Arch Bridge/Mill District and the Hennepin Avenue Bridge/Nicolett [sic] Island.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby xandrex » April 1st, 2015, 10:48 am

First Street between Hennepin and Third Avenue just might be one of the most drab streets downtown.
True, but that's exactly where this market would be and would probably turn it around quite a bit. And I don't get the whole mental barrier thing. The post office is in the center of four burgeoning neighborhoods: Downtown core, Mill District, Northeast, and North Loop. So how are people flocking to those areas but having panic attacks getting to the P.O.? Washington does suck, but how much of a hothouse flower do you have to be to have it push you away from somewhere you want to go?
I'd argue it might be where a bunch of these neighborhoods collide, but it's not really their center of gravity. The downtown core really starts about five blocks away (roughly 5th, but the heart is even further south), the Mill District is more east and slightly disconnected from here, Northeast has a river in the way, which poses real mental and physical barriers (not to mention distance), and the North Loop exists not far away, but I'd say it really doesn't come alive until you go more north on Washington.

I don't know that anyone is having panic attacks, but the density of things just drops off at Washington (except for housing). If this was in a more exciting area or had room around it for development, I think it would make perfect sense. But what else can really be built nearby? There aren't too many free lots, so it would be an area otherwise kind of stuck in amber with a new food market.

I think having it there also makes it a bit of a destination-only sort of place. It's relatively far from the rest of downtown's amenities, so you're unlikely to happen to be walking by it and decide to duck in. You have to know where it is and want to go there. That's a definite barrier.

Chava
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Chava » April 1st, 2015, 12:21 pm

To me, the distance from the Nicollet station isn't a deal breaker, especially on a day like today. But if you pull into the station, the location of the post office isn't readily apparent. It's not something you can spot looking northeast(ish) on Nicollect toward 1st st. Looking from Marquette, it's pretty easy to see.

All the distance and place making discussion aside, is there some plan or agreement already in place for the USPS to move out or lease space? I sure hope this isn't a mean April Fools' joke.

twincitizen
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby twincitizen » April 1st, 2015, 1:03 pm

^That's actually a great question!

If the Post Office were to leave this location, would they consolidate operations at the newer facility in Eagan (the new spot for their former Downtown St. Paul operations)? If so, why haven't they done this already? It seems unlikely they'd seek a new location instead of consolidating with the "St. Paul" one in Eagan, right? Was there a political angle to this that kept the facility (and its jobs) in Downtown?

Let's get a history lesson first before we get too far ahead of ourselves (obviously too late for that, but w/e).

Wedgeguy
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Wedgeguy » April 1st, 2015, 1:05 pm

My impression of the food market is it would become the Riverplace of the south side of the river. We saw how even with the number of residential units that were built at the time, that having a single destination project will not always bring a fruitful project. There would have to be some parking figured into this project if you are going to have it survive as a destination project. As has been brought up before, there is little of any near by retail or destination that will have enough drawing power to continually draw people to the area. That was Riverplace's problem, it was a destination that you might go to a few times a year. It did not have anchors that drew people there a few times a week. I'm just looking at past attempts at projects that ended up turkeys. Not to say it would not work, but as things are right now, The cards are stacked against it being a profitable venture. But the same was said about Midtown Exchange. While it is not a turkey, it has not totally panned out as far as how well it can make money. I'll give it a few more years to mature and get a solid back before I'd call it a flop. But again you are trying to build a market for a market that already has Lund's, Whole Paycheck, Target, and possibly a new Trader Joe's. Unless you are planning to subsidize the **** out of the rents, they will never be able to really compete with the established grocery stores or the Farmers Market.

I propose a tech incubator for a good portion of the building. The main lobby will definitely take some real brainstorming and cash to find a profitable use.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby xandrex » April 1st, 2015, 1:20 pm

^I agree with most of what you say here, Wedgeguy. But I wonder if a tech incubator is a good substitute? In general, I'd say yes. But doesn't CoCo and some other spaces like it in Downtown East sort of serve that function?

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby MNdible » April 1st, 2015, 1:34 pm

I seem to recall that at the time that the St. Paul operation was moving to Eagan, there was at least some high level discussion about also consolidating the Minneapolis post office to the same location (potentially at some point in the future). I don't know where things stand with that now, but it would make sense to me to have a single primary distribution center for the whole metro area, with sub-distribution to all of the local post offices for actual mail delivery.

It could be that the USPS is watching their load shrinking and theorizing that they may (in the not too distant future) be able to consolidate Minneapolis into Eagan without expanding that facility.

I've also heard that the Airport Post Office is not long for this world.

Archiapolis
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby Archiapolis » April 1st, 2015, 2:13 pm

Also being only 5 blocks away is not that far. During cold weather there is the skyway that is just one street crossing short so it could be easily accessed during the cold weather already, better so if one more skyway connection was created.
I dunno, it's a half mile roughly from the post office to Nicollet Mall station. That's a not insignificant amount given that we generally promote only 1/4 mile spacing for transit stops as the ideal. It's not so much that it's particularly far, but that it's mentally far.

A few people have mentioned Washington being the barrier and cited a transit "cut off," but anyone who has to cross the river to get home rather than the 94 trench (yeah, that's you, Southsiders) knows that transit doesn't really cut off before Washington. The issue is that there's nothing there north of Washington. Who's going to randomly stumble by a food market or the like when it's otherwise surrounded by boring, wide streets that are mostly filled with residential towers. First Street between Hennepin and Third Avenue just might be one of the most drab streets downtown.
-1

twincitizen
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby twincitizen » April 1st, 2015, 2:38 pm

I tend to agree with the above as well. This concept wouldn't be a success without more stuff around it and better access to it.
I'd start by tearing down 20 Washington, 100 Washington, and The Churchill's ugly parking garage :twisted:
This whole area needs urban re-renewal.


On a happier note, I found this beautiful shot in the streets.mn Flickr feed:

Image
Minneapolis Pink Sunrise with the Hennepin Avenue Bridge by noahscheapframedpictures@gmail.com, on Flickr

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby FISHMANPET » April 1st, 2015, 2:43 pm

OK, someone's going to have to explain the hate for 20/100 Washington Ave, because I really don't get it.

grant1simons2
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Re: Minneapolis Post Office

Postby grant1simons2 » April 1st, 2015, 3:05 pm

^^^ ditto. I love both of those. 100 Washington has a parking lot that can be built out of.


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