urbanMSP

Per the article, this will be two buildings, one on Hennepin and one on First Avenue. Right?

And the one on First Avenue has tuck under garages on 55', no other structured parking.

Per the article, this will be two buildings, one on Hennepin and one on First Avenue. Right?

And the one on First Avenue has tuck under garages on 55', no other structured parking.

As I detailed, there is no way that the developer is going to give up rentable space to a drive aisle/alley in the back in order to create a pleasant pedestrian environment on 1st. Guarantee that they propose several paired curb cuts on 1st.

Put me down for a vote that this arrangement sucks.

Can developers just put in curb cuts as they please? It essentially privatizes the curb space of the public streets.

Will the property owner pay the opportunity cost of lost meter revenue? I know there aren't meters here now, but I can't see the bus layover point sticking around regardless of the way the development shapes out.

Somewhat related: My parents house in Linden Hills recently had a teardown across the street and next door. Both widened the curb cuts, which effectively removed a couple parking spaces from the block. Parking's not really an issue on their block, but are property owners really allowed to just remove curb space for their private driveways?

What if they put the garages in the back? Have the drive in from the ramp. Then we could have some row type town homes without interruption facing 1st

I would guess that there are city codes in place which limit the number of driveways per block, or something to that effect, at least within downtown. That's a good point regarding potential meter revenue, even if there isn't any there today.

The more I think about it, I think we can assume they plan to retain the narrow private alley in back, rather than curb cuts on the street.

It looks like at least Routes 4 and 6 (that don't cross the river) layover here today. While there are plans to make every 6 a "6U" if more bus funding materializes, at least the 4 (and perhaps other routes) will still need to secure a layover within a block of here, as they start their southbound trip at 1st & Hennepin). This location is super convenient for their operations and moving it pretty much anywhere hits Metro Transit in the wallet. Buses currently have use of the full block 6am-6pm, and then the northern half of the block at all times. Sidebar - if you're looking for a place to park FREE after 6pm, this looks to be it!

The ramp looks to have some major slope to it so my idea wouldn't work. It'd be major cool to have a back alley though, even just for walking. Surprised no one is talking about the very mature trees on this site though.

Thought about that too.

This open space would have value to future residents of the area as a pocket park / dog poop repository, plus the clear public need for the bus layover should not be ignored.

When what they're offering is likely less than a dozen townhomes, I'd almost prefer that they do nothing on the 1st Ave side. Maybe throw an addition on the back of the old commercial building or something, but leave the rest of the block alone.

Why are we assuming the driveways would face first? To quote another thread:

We literally know nothing here.

I want to add a little code info to the discussion regarding connecting to the parking ramp. According to the county website this site is divided into 3 properties. The parking ramp is on a separate property. This is important as the building code does not allow opening within 5' of property lines. There seems to be some exception for parking ramps as you often see the open sides like this one has. The percentage of openings allowed begin to increase once you are 5' from a property line. This is important to this project because to use the ramp for the new housing you would need to introduce openings/connections. There are things you can do, like adding a 3hr rated "air lock", but it would require special approvals and can be spendy. I mention this because I could see a connection to the apartment buildings if they aren't building new parking for them, but it would be highly unlikely to try to get 10 connections to townhomes.

This fact also will play into the shape of the buildings. The townhomes could end up like the apartments around the new Wells Fargo towers. Butting right up to the parking garage and having windows on one side only. The apartment building massing will be affected as well. A double loaded corridor pushed right up to Hennipen [sic] leaves plenty of space in between it and the ramp, but it is all with north exposure. Not good for the amenity deck...

The more I think about it, I think we can assume they plan to retain the narrow private alley in back, rather than curb cuts on the street.

I posted above about why that would be VERY difficult to do mathematically if they intend to have a two way drive aisle.

55’ - 22’ drive aisle - 20’ garage = 13’ remaining for any unit AND any front yard/landscaping/ramping/stair, etc.

I don’t know how wide that alley is currently but the Mpls code is 22’ for a two way drive aisle. I am not aware of a “grandfathered” narrower width - maybe they will have a one way drive aisle from 1st to 2nd. That seems like it could work and still allow some usable unit space toward the street but this image should show how little space there is after a two way drive aisle + parking (which looks to be angled!).

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.984491, ... e0!6m1!1e1

I don't know why people are so worried about the 1st Ave parcel. It will be very difficult for them to pencil out a profitable project on that portion. They may say they are, but in the end I see that piece just staying as it is. The real drama is on Hennepin Ave side of the block. There is plenty of land to make a real project. There is close to a 1/3 of a block on that side of the ramp. That is where Shorenstein and us on here should be concentrating our efforts. We need to fill that void along Hennepin with housing and maybe a bit of retail. The side is the main entrée, the 1st Ave side will be gravy if they can truly find a profitable way to develop that space.

CPC COW agenda out. This looks promising. Townhomes on 1st ave do not have garages facing the street.

Here's the plan: http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 141205.pdf

Since the ramp is mostly level on the ground floor, it would be great if the two sides of the development could get vehicle access/ingress via the ramp rather than additional curb cuts. The block could have two curb cuts instead of six.

I really like how this looks and think it'll be a great addition to that area.

Aerial View from Nicollet:


View from Hennepin Ave Bridge:


First Ave Townhomes sidewalk view:

Good...Retail on the corners, and I like the townhouses along 1st...that will really help make it feel more neighborhood-y in this area.

I think there's also hope that small storefronts could be carved into the two faces of the parking ramp that touch the sidewalk. That would be nice.

Another idea: I hope there's an option to put doorways into these townhome's garages at some point in the future, connecting the garage to the sidewalk. It would make an excellent live-work conversion. Assuming the garages are two-car, these garages could easily provide 400 SF workspaces/makespaces/small storefronts along 1st Ave N.

In general , I think this project looks quite promising . I'm particularly impressed with the base. I wonder if the coloration of the exterior will make the complex look a bit dreary in the winter but maybe not. The city has made some good recommendations and if they are carried through this will be an even better proposal.

I like it. Better than 222, but still ties-in in a neighborly way. I'm kinda bummed that probably every tree on this block will be trashed, but such is the life in Mpls. As for the colors maybe appearing drab in winter, I'd say I'm welcoming this material/color scheme. Enough brown and warmth, it gets mealy. And let's just say I have over a decade looking at this parcel

I, for one, am getting really sick of these boxes.

If you were critical of 222 Hennepin (and I know a lot of you are) you should have ample fodder with this proposal.

Side note: is there some bug going around the development community for townhomes in the most ill conceived places? 10th and marquette; historic small retail spaces along a busy transit corridor, perfect place for walk up townhomes right? 100 Hennepin; gateway between the river and downtown, adjacent to a busy whole foods and warehouse district nightlife. Exactly where you'd want people to be able to stumble up on your front door right?