Century Plaza / Convention Hotel rumoring (archive)

[mattaudio]

I don't think it's particularly special or significant, but it's more special and significant than surface parking lots and 40 year old parking ramps.

[nickmgray]

Having worked in hotels for years, I can guarantee you that this will not be any taller than it needs to be. When you're looking at managing a hotel with over 1,000 rooms, you goal is efficiency, something that you lose with every added floor since you rely on elevators to move guests and employees around. Since elevators are extremely expensive, you want to make sure you have just the right number.

The Hilton has about 50 rooms per floor, a number which could easily be doubled if the hotel was is an x shape. My guess is that this project wouldn't be more than 30 floors of rooms with 4-5 levels for meeting space, gym, spa and restaurants.

[woofner]

I was just talking over the county facility with my brother and we still can't figure out what is so special about the building that some people are so offended by taking it down. It really isn't that special or significant. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's precious...just look at me, I think there's a line of people that would like to see me gone for a newer model.

It's the only art deco school in Minneapolis, possibly in the metro. Obviously it's been extensively altered, but based on the (low-res) photos I've seen, I'd think restoration would be possible.

[seanrichardryan]

I'm not sure if that swath of land is large enough. What makes a convention hotel is its continuous ballroom space on one level. The largest hotel ballroom is the Hilton, and they takes up nearly a full block (4/5 or so). If only the Hall of States on the Leamington were still around...

[seanrichardryan]

I was just talking over the county facility with my brother and we still can't figure out what is so special about the building that some people are so offended by taking it down. It really isn't that special or significant. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's precious...just look at me, I think there's a line of people that would like to see me gone for a newer model.

It's the only art deco school in Minneapolis, possibly in the metro. Obviously it's been extensively altered, but based on the (low-res) photos I've seen, I'd think restoration would be possible.

What about Sheridan in NE on Broadway and University? A far more attractive art deco school.

[mnmike]

So much discussion on this...I am sure any solid propsal is years off. Isn't this just a feasibility study like they did in 2007?

[Le Sueur]

Does the Ivy own the surface lot on Southwest corner of their block? I thought the south half of the block including the corner where the skyway is and the southeast where the church is would make for a great location! You could link the skyway in the new hotel and possibly the Ivy too. Reality, probably not likely.

I like the county building, it would be nice to save at least the facade. But, as long as its not a 20 story stick built hotel, we might all live.

No need losing it until we see real plans.

[woofner]

What about Sheridan in NE on Broadway and University? A far more attractive art deco school.

I stand corrected on both counts, although I'd say Century Plaza was quite attractive before it was Century Plaza (and still has some charm).

[min-chi-cbus]

Having worked in hotels for years, I can guarantee you that this will not be any taller than it needs to be. When you're looking at managing a hotel with over 1,000 rooms, you goal is efficiency, something that you lose with every added floor since you rely on elevators to move guests and employees around. Since elevators are extremely expensive, you want to make sure you have just the right number.

The Hilton has about 50 rooms per floor, a number which could easily be doubled if the hotel was is an x shape. My guess is that this project wouldn't be more than 30 floors of rooms with 4-5 levels for meeting space, gym, spa and restaurants.

I appreciate that industry-specific knowledge wherever I can get it! However, if they build UP in places like Atlanta, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Denver, etc., etc., etc, then they could just as well do that in Minneapolis, which very very likely has higher land premiums than any of those select cities. I do NOT always understand what makes one building tall and/or elegant and another stout and/or boring.....I truly don't!

[MNdible]

Remember, we're talking about convention center hotels, which is not at all the same thing as a luxury hotel.

Here are (as near as I can figure) the primary convention center hotels in the cities that you list:

The San Antonio Riverwalk Marriott is 30 stories tall and no thing of beauty.

The Hilton Austin is 31 stories tall and ugly.

The Omni Dallas Hotel is 23 stories tall and meh.

The Hyatt Regency Denver is 38 stories and while tall, is nothing to write home about.

Atlanta is the home base of John Portman, who was apparently the only guy who ever figured out how to make big modern hotels really cool, and the city greatly benefited from his work. Still, the CNN Omni Center is 28 stories tall.

[min-chi-cbus]

Remember, we're talking about convention center hotels, which is not at all the same thing as a luxury hotel.

Here are (as near as I can figure) the primary convention center hotels in the cities that you list:

The San Antonio Riverwalk Marriott is 30 stories tall and no thing of beauty.

The Hilton Austin is 31 stories tall and ugly.

The Omni Dallas Hotel is 23 stories tall and meh.

The Hyatt Regency Denver is 38 stories and while tall, is nothing to write home about.

Atlanta is the home base of John Portman, who was apparently the only guy who ever figured out how to make big modern hotels really cool, and the city greatly benefited from his work. Still, the CNN Omni Center is 28 stories tall.

I don't see how this counters my point: I don't consider 25-35 stories a blocky failure.

[MNdible]

My point was that the Hilton, which everybody thinks is short and stubby, is very much in the model of the typical convention hotel, topping out at 25 stories. It's worth looking up these other hotels, because aside from being in a similar range of height and number of rooms, they also share a similarity in that they're all double-loaded corridors -- buildings that are thin in one direction, but in the other are approximately as wide as they are tall.

People (perhaps not you) are talking about a soaring 50 story building with a small footprint, and that's not what convention center hotels look like.

[writruth]

http://www.statesman.com/business/real- ... 82129.html

The above link connects to a story providing much more detail on the 50-story, $350 million convention hotel to be built in Austin, TX. It will be under the Fairmont Hotels brand and is scheduled to break ground next Spring for a projected 2015 opening. By clicking on the magnifying glass on the photo, you get a much better perspective on the hotel rendering. According to the story, this will be the 2nd convention-scale hotel to go up in Austin (along with a Marriot-branded hotel).

It's not hard to image, how this structure with a skyway connection directly into the Minneapolis Convention Center and its multi-story base, could serve as an excellent model for our own downtown proposal. This would be a game changer and vault Minneapolis to the head of the class when it competes with Denver, St. Louis, Kansas City and Indianapolis for large scale events.

Either this type of building or the Chicago green energy hotel would be amazing additions to our Minneapolis skyline and should provide the final puzzle-piece mega-conventions insist on when scouting cities in which to hold their next conventions.

[Andrew_F]

That "green hotel" by the Sears was never a serious proposal.

[John]

That "green hotel" by the Sears was never a serious proposal.

Maybe that's true, but the point is building a 50 story hotel is not some pipe dream for Minneapolis if we construct a 1000 room convention hotel . On the contrary, there are going up all over the place, and in mid-size cities too (i.e Austin TX) in order to compete for larger conventions. Retiredbanker said the hotel they are thinking of building here is of a "significant size", and I believe he's inferring significant size in the tallest sense of the phrase. Maybe DaPerpKazoo you haven't been in Minnepolis for awhile , but our metropolitan area is over 3 million people and will likely surpass Detroit as the 2nd largest metro area in the midwest in the near future. We do have about 8 buildings downtown over 40 stories (with 4 of those 50 stories or above). Not Chicago, but a respectable amount. Our gauge for "significant size" is just not the same as Des Moines or Omaha where 20 -30 stories is still considered tall.

[Didier]

As somebody reading this thread as a complete notice with no prior knowledge about convention hotels, I will say that the people suggesting a shorter strike seem to have a lot more basis for their predictions than those suggesting a lot of height. For what what's worth.

[John]

As somebody reading this thread as a complete notice with no prior knowledge about convention hotels, I will say that the people suggesting a shorter strike seem to have a lot more basis for their predictions than those suggesting a lot of height. For what what's worth.

That is fine to be cautious and reserved which is part of our culture here. However, sometimes we need to be brave and shake up our cultural conditioning to move forward. The IDS Center would have never been built with that attitude.

[mattaudio]

Anybody want to throw in a rendering of a 40 to 50 level tower on this parcel? Curious to see how it would change the skyline. From my vantage point to the south it looks like it would block Norwest and/or Foshay

[Didier]

That is fine to be cautious and reserved which is part of our culture here. However, sometimes we need to be brave and shake up our cultural conditioning to move forward. The IDS Center would have never been built with that attitude.

You're missing the point. Nobody here is promoting a short and/or crappy building.

[Avian]

Anybody want to throw in a rendering of a 40 to 50 level tower on this parcel? Curious to see how it would change the skyline. From my vantage point to the south it looks like it would block Norwest and/or Foshay

Here's a quick image using a photo by a photographer who goes by the handle of CarbonSilver. A 50-story hotel would be in the 550' range which puts it a bit shorter than the Campbell-Mithun building. From this angle it separates itself from the core and it would be prominent from 35W.

Fun to imagine, anyway...



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