Thrivent HQ & Sherman apartments - 500 7th St S

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Oreos&Milk
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby Oreos&Milk » February 20th, 2020, 8:30 pm

Only thing that would make it worth it would be if they were affordable micro studio apartments say 250-300sq ft with prices at 550 to 650 rent prices. Be a great opportunity for people just starting out after college in all that debt.

GILBball
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby GILBball » February 20th, 2020, 8:33 pm

The height is one thing, but I'm probably more annoyed by the car court (or whatever) between the office and apartment buildings that could fit a whole other building in there.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby BigIdeasGuy » February 21st, 2020, 6:22 pm

Apartments for the other half of the block are back. Eight whole stories. What a waste.

https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/download ... 207th%20St
It's Sherman, when is the last time you saw a project of his and thought "wow that's super high risk"

twincitizen
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby twincitizen » February 25th, 2020, 8:20 am

Sherman plans to submit a development application to the city this fall. Vertical construction could start a year later. If all goes according to plan, the building would open in 2021, LaFave said.

Sherman could have gone with an even taller, denser apartment building since the developer is planning to frame the apartments with steel. But Sherman has found that buildings with 200 apartments or fewer fully lease in about 12 months, which is optimal for the developer, LaFave said.
It's all about the 𝖻̶𝖾̶𝗇̶𝗃̶𝖺̶𝗆̶𝗂̶𝗇̶𝗌̶ risk, baby

HKM
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby HKM » February 25th, 2020, 1:00 pm

What was the point of the support for the 2040 plan if this relatively low intensity is allowed? By not meeting the city's 10 story guidance for Core 50, this is shortchanging at least 64 units (78 total bedrooms) at a site with a 94 walk score, 95 transit score, and 91 bike score.

twincitizen
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby twincitizen » February 25th, 2020, 1:20 pm

Not necessarily though - if you look at the plans, they actually show an alternative 10-story option that just has a slimmer massing above the 2nd floor (that could be a good thing). So 10 stories instead of 8, but a very similar number of units, possibly even fewer. Comp Plan goal met? Height and density are not the same thing.

The issue here isn't convincing Sherman to build 10-11 stories, it's convincing them to spend an additional $10 million (approximately) and increase their risk by adding another 50 units or so. Sherman wanting a building to fully lease up in one year is an extremely low risk proposition, and that probably does merit some push-back. I thought the industry standard was more like 18 months. Several other developers have noted their reluctance to go above 300 units, due to the lengthier lease up period. That's fair. Not wanting to exceed 200 units / 12-month lease up maybe is too conservative for this location.

BoredAgain
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby BoredAgain » February 25th, 2020, 1:56 pm

Not necessarily though - if you look at the plans, they actually show an alternative 10-story option that just has a slimmer massing above the 2nd floor (that could be a good thing). So 10 stories instead of 8, but a very similar number of units, possibly even fewer. Comp Plan goal met? Height and density are not the same thing.

The issue here isn't convincing Sherman to build 10-11 stories, it's convincing them to spend an additional $10 million (approximately) and increase their risk by adding another 50 units or so. Sherman wanting a building to fully lease up in one year is an extremely low risk proposition, and that probably does merit some push-back. I thought the industry standard was more like 18 months. Several other developers have noted their reluctance to go above 300 units, due to the lengthier lease up period. That's fair. Not wanting to exceed 200 units / 12-month lease up maybe is too conservative for this location.
If the alternative given is for a taller building with the same unit count, then I would not be surprised if they determined the unit count based on available parking in the pre-designed full block underground ramp that they put in for the Thrivent building.

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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby talindsay » February 25th, 2020, 5:42 pm

So I'm a big fan of trying to increase density over a larger area as opposed to building tall buildings for the sake of tall buildings, and honestly I was preparing to respond here that people shouldn't hate on 8-story medium density housing. Then I looked at the proposal and was reminded of this specific location and the things surrounding it. In most of the city their proposed building would be a great addition, but here it's kind of pathetic.

If Sherman only wants to build ~200 units, I'd think they could do so using only half of this lot space, saving the other half for future development when the market can bear it - or when their finances can bear it. This seems like a great place for a couple of ~15 story apartment buildings given the surrounding uses.

Even if their balance sheets indicate that the 11 stories this construction method allows is all the higher they can go, they could probably get close to 200 units in 11 stories in just over half this footprint, leaving plenty of space for other construction later.

fehler
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby fehler » February 25th, 2020, 11:22 pm

Full. Block. Parking. Lot.

Silophant
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby Silophant » February 26th, 2020, 8:04 am

If the alternative given is for a taller building with the same unit count, then I would not be surprised if they determined the unit count based on available parking in the pre-designed full block underground ramp that they put in for the Thrivent building.
I suspect this is a big factor. The original plan for this site (from page 2 or so of this thread) had the same podium with a daycare, but on top had a 120-room hotel and a 150-room apartment building. I can imagine their internal metrics saying that what was sufficient parking for 120 downtown hotel rooms is only good for 45 apartments. Which is silly, of course, with City Club being about six blocks away with no parking at all and apparently leasing up just fine, but Sherman is nothing if not conservative.

MinnMonkey
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Re: RE: Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby MinnMonkey » February 26th, 2020, 10:42 am


If the alternative given is for a taller building with the same unit count, then I would not be surprised if they determined the unit count based on available parking in the pre-designed full block underground ramp that they put in for the Thrivent building.
Currently there is no parking on the vacant half of the block. Thrivant only built parking under their building. There may be plans to connect both halves, but the 2nd half nothing has been built.

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HKM
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby HKM » February 26th, 2020, 11:48 am

So I'm a big fan of trying to increase density over a larger area as opposed to building tall buildings for the sake of tall buildings, and honestly I was preparing to respond here that people shouldn't hate on 8-story medium density housing. Then I looked at the proposal and was reminded of this specific location and the things surrounding it. In most of the city their proposed building would be a great addition, but here it's kind of pathetic.

If Sherman only wants to build ~200 units, I'd think they could do so using only half of this lot space, saving the other half for future development when the market can bear it - or when their finances can bear it. This seems like a great place for a couple of ~15 story apartment buildings given the surrounding uses.

Even if their balance sheets indicate that the 11 stories this construction method allows is all the higher they can go, they could probably get close to 200 units in 11 stories in just over half this footprint, leaving plenty of space for other construction later.
I agree with all of this. If this developer can't make more housing work in a spot that screams car-free lifestyle, proximity to jobs, skyway connection, and nearby businesses challenged for non-event customers, I'd prefer to wait for one that can. This is a prime spot and that won't be changing anytime soon but once something's built, it will be there forever.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby SurlyLHT » February 26th, 2020, 12:52 pm

Greenspace for Thrivent employees until something better comes along.

Silophant
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby Silophant » March 2nd, 2020, 8:12 am

Sherman was supposed to present this to the DMNA tonight, but delayed for a month while they "react to feedback from the Planning Commission". So there was something there that the CPC found to be unacceptable.

HKM
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby HKM » March 2nd, 2020, 11:36 am

Wedge Live covered the Feb 27 planning meeting (linked here): https://twitter.com/WedgeLIVE/status/12 ... 4377412609

Planning staff and commissioners want a bigger building than this 8 story proposal in Elliot Park downtown: "Staff has concerns about the lack of proposed land use intensity at this location."

Commissioner Luepke-Pier frames question for developer: "How do we not underdevelop our city?"

alexschief
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby alexschief » March 2nd, 2020, 12:34 pm

The CPC come down hard on the Dinkytown McDonald's development for going over the new FAR limits. If they are going to be consistent in enforcing what the Minneapolis 2040 plan says, they need to reject an eight story building at this site. Otherwise this becomes a one-way ratchet in favor of less density, which was clearly not the plan's intention.

Frankly, I would have approved both developments. But having established the precedent that they did, the CPC is now bound to it.

Silophant
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - 6th St and Portland Ave

Postby Silophant » May 5th, 2020, 6:50 pm

Sherman presented an update to the DMNA tonight. It seems the CPC did hold the line on the height minimum, so the updated plan looks to be exactly the same as in the CoW packet linked above, with the addition of two additional residential floors and 45 units, but no more parking. They're up to 240 units (294 bedrooms), still with the same 90 underground parking stalls for the apartments and 13 surface lot stalls for the daycare off the courtyard (but under the building, so, the zoning code counts them as enclosed).

The 2040 Plan: it's good.

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Anondson
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Re: Thrivent Headquarters Block - Reuter Walton - 500 7th St S

Postby Anondson » May 5th, 2020, 7:17 pm

That’s a really nice result.

twincitizen
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Re: Thrivent HQ & Sherman apartments - 500 7th St S

Postby twincitizen » May 5th, 2020, 7:29 pm

That’s nice, but what can you tell us about this part of the meeting?

Silophant
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Re: Thrivent HQ & Sherman apartments - 500 7th St S

Postby Silophant » May 5th, 2020, 8:32 pm

That... was certainly an event. The fun part was when we ended the meeting, waited five minutes, and tried the same un-passworded meeting link again.

It didn't go better the second time.

Also, the CPC packet was posted to the DMNA site.


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