21 North Washington - 27 stories - 300'

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Mdcastle
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby Mdcastle » January 6th, 2021, 1:02 pm

Its interesting that that city seems quite confident that this building:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9779489 ... 384!8i8192
doesn't meet any historic preservation standards and should be sold to the highest bidder for redevelopment, but the Dolphin Staffing building, might be historic and eligible for preservation.
Cities are always more eager to tell people what to do or not do with their property than to follow their own rules. Somehow I'm not able to install a new high pressure sodium vapor light fixture on my property because it doesn't meet CRI and Kelvin temperature requirements yet Bloomington could use them on every street.

seanrichardryan
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby seanrichardryan » January 30th, 2021, 10:10 am

Expectedly, this has been appealed. https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/File/2021-00182
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

uptownbro
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby uptownbro » February 12th, 2021, 11:54 am

https://www.startribune.com/modernist-m ... 600022323/

Looks like it will be coming down. I am very glad to see this moving forward. Its replacing a building that never should have been built

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Nathan
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby Nathan » February 12th, 2021, 12:14 pm

https://www.startribune.com/modernist-m ... 600022323/

Looks like it will be coming down. I am very glad to see this moving forward. Its replacing a building that never should have been built
A lot of people during the time period of gateway renewal might have said those old, out of style, inefficient buildings should never have been built either... I personally love the current building. I don't think it looks as good as it could, but I do believe it could be modified to fit a very urban context. Another sensitivity I have is that early modernist buildings around the city are being lost left and right. Though this isn't the most amazing example of modernist architecture. It will certainly be missed in Minneapolis' architectural timeline as the buildings that stood in its place previously are. Two wrongs don't make a right. That being said I think the stature and use of the proposed building carries a lot of value for this area and the residential and retail life of the city. I would err on the side of preservation (considering there is plenty of under used land all over the damn place) but I'm going to hope that the new building can help be a part of a new and thriving gateway turn around.

uptownbro
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby uptownbro » February 12th, 2021, 12:22 pm

I can respect that view point and I do think we need to save some of the modernist buildings in the city and if this was the Northwestern National Life Building I would be up in arms if they wanted to tear it down. I just dont see this one as significant.
I also rather like the new proposal

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Nathan
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby Nathan » February 12th, 2021, 12:36 pm

I can respect that view point and I do think we need to save some of the modernist buildings in the city and if this was the Northwestern National Life Building I would be up in arms if they wanted to tear it down. I just dont see this one as significant.
I also rather like the new proposal
A part of my argument is that the buildings that this building replaced weren't "significant" either. Probably run of the mill buildings of their period (I'd have to do some research here) but if they standing today it would be an outrage to tear it down. We have no idea how this building would be viewed in terms of significance in 20, 30, 50 or 100 years. This "insignificant" building is historic and is of a class of buildings that has significantly dwindled. The original Guthrie, the previous library, thrivent... the two city owned office buildings will probably go next (though could be preserved by the city) then what's left? The voya building stands alone the way city hall and the mke railway station do today? when they had a lot of valuable historic company before? You have to intentionally preserve the periods... even when they aren't popular or seen as significant.

Minneapolis is great at creating architectural islands though so why not keep it up.

I also like the new building :) I just think Minneapolis has a vast and storied history of failing in the preservation department. (And a lot of free space)

alexschief
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Re: 17 North Washington - CA - 27 stories - ~300'(?)

Postby alexschief » March 4th, 2021, 9:54 am

This is on the upcoming Planning Commission agenda. Here's the packet. The address has leveled up to 21 N Washington, a thread name change may be required.

There's not a lot to report that wasn't already known. 427 housing units, 373 parking spaces (of which 35 are reserved for tenants of the adjacent buildings along 1st Ave), and 445 bicycle parking spaces. For a building downtown, that parking ratio is really good. Hopefully this gets built.

twincitizen
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories ~300'

Postby twincitizen » March 12th, 2021, 3:37 pm

I'm hoping that either this project or its sister development fronting on Hennepin will attract a national retail tenant. Commercial brokers have been quoted for years as saying "everyone wants to be near Whole Foods". But the problem has been that there simply weren't any good retail spaces right near Whole Foods. Apple Store would be a massive win for downtown, and would make increase demand by other retailers/restaurants to be near this corner even greater, but that's probably reaching. Apple seems to prefer custom storefronts for premier downtown locations, over just any generic storefront that they don't have a hand in designing. And I'm not sure if they're even in expansion mode for retail (or looking to replace the closed Uptown location 1:1)...could be bad timing on that front. Still, I think/hope we'll see some pretty impressive retail additions via these two buildings.

P.S. I changed the address in the thread title, but for the life of me could not find the height of the building stated in the staff report or plans. IDK why city staff don't just put it in one of the tables in the report - they only go by floors. It wasn't listed on the elevation drawings either.

go4guy
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories ~300'

Postby go4guy » March 13th, 2021, 7:56 pm

Is there a Chipotle with normal hours in that area? Seems like a perfect spot for one of those with the combo of residents/hotel patrons/office workers. I know its not a big space tenant, but would still be good.

Silophant
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories ~300'

Postby Silophant » March 17th, 2021, 2:42 pm

P.S. I changed the address in the thread title, but for the life of me could not find the height of the building stated in the staff report or plans. IDK why city staff don't just put it in one of the tables in the report - they only go by floors. It wasn't listed on the elevation drawings either.
Extra frustratingly, there's a project metrics chart on page 27 that shows the elevation of the bottom of each occupied floor. So you can see that Level 27 starts at 368.2' (ground is 99.8'), but there's no way to see what the top of the mechanical floor 28 is. But, assuming the elevation on page 70 is drawn to scale, the top of the mechanical floor is 30.9' above the bottom of floor 27, at 268.4', which puts the roof at 299.3'.

Very proud of my estimate from the beginning of the thread. :D

alexschief
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories ~300'

Postby alexschief » March 18th, 2021, 7:36 am

I'm not a height stickler, but no, absolutely not, you are not allowed to finish a building 9" short of a big round number like 300'.

SurlyLHT
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories ~300'

Postby SurlyLHT » March 18th, 2021, 8:11 am

I'm not a height stickler, but no, absolutely not, you are not allowed to finish a building 9" short of a big round number like 300'.
I agree, I mean with 9" they could duct tape something to the top. Seems like they could put in some simple architecture element to increase it by that height.

uptownbro
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories ~300'

Postby uptownbro » March 18th, 2021, 8:17 am

Rounding error. You really could tape a popcan to the top to get the needed height. In my eyes its 300 feet.

Silophant
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Re: 21 North Washington - 27 stories - 300'

Postby Silophant » March 18th, 2021, 8:30 am

Good enough for me.


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