Mill City Quarter - 300 South 2nd Street

[Nathan]

I only point it out because I would assume that most people living in the residential area (also, Loring Park) work downtown. Or if it's a dual earner household at least one does). So they clearly walk somewhere on the way to work in whatever they wear to work. Regardless, it's amusing because, even if Minneapolis is colder than other major cities without skyways, the things that make going outside uncomfortable or damaging to nice clothes/shoes exist there as well.

As for this project, I'm a little surprised that given the apparent lack of typical neighborhood amenities up here that the Phase II wouldn't have more retail space (unless I'm missing something?)

Most people living in Downtown/Loring/Mill City have made a definitive choice to live in an urban environment and take on all of the challenges that go along with it. A large majority of people in Minneapolis 9-5 have not made that commitment.

[lordmoke]

As for this project, I'm a little surprised that given the apparent lack of typical neighborhood amenities up here that the Phase II wouldn't have more retail space (unless I'm missing something?)

The Carlyle still has a fairly large amount of un-leased commercial space, which (depending on the specifics, which I do not know) may make more retail across the street not seem like a great idea:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Carlyle+ ... 89,,1,5.01

[mplser]

oh wow! I never even noticed those retail spaces! they seem to be sort of hidden by those low trees.

[RailBaronYarr]

Most people living in Downtown/Loring/Mill City have made a definitive choice to live in an urban environment and take on all of the challenges that go along with it. A large majority of people in Minneapolis 9-5 have not made that commitment.

I get that, but my question still stands for what people do in other parts of the country/world who commute in by car/bus/train and walk around in rain/snow/salt/humidity wearing work clothes. I was just in DC over the 4th (and then some) and it's was amazing seeing the number of people in 95 degree, 85%+ humidity weather walking around in suits. Same goes for the salty/slushy/snowy streets of NYC.

I didn't realize the Carlyle had open retail space - would be awesome to see that fill up with something that serves the local residents.

[Nathan]

New York gets an average of 25 inches of snow, on an average of 13 days a year, and it proceeds to melt in the following days so that is maybe 2-3 weeks of inconvenience. We get twice as much over 100 days, and in Minnesota it stays below 32 degrees for months and therefor the snow doesn't just melt like it does in other metros. Besides that we have some weather where skin exposure for more than 10-15 minutes causes frost bite. Something heat doesn't do. We are just not comparable. I agree that it doesn't make sense to have skyways in the residential neighborhoods and especially historic districts like this. But I'd like to see you be a downtown foot courier for a winter with no skyways and see what you think.

[RailBaronYarr]

Again, it was an example. How about Toronto?:
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/C ... erages.php
vs
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/M ... erages.php
Or Montreal, Ottawa, etc.

I was a student on campus for 4 years walking to and from class 3+ times a day, plus between classes, and never had a problem. Don't need to be a foot courier to understand. Besides, I thought the skyways were so that people could get to lunch comfortably during the work hours? It's clearly a difference of opinion, but I will always point to other cities across the world that get cold that do not have anywhere near the skyway infrastructure we do and people aren't dying of frostbite or heat exhaustion during the work hours, foot couriers included. Nor does the vast majority of the city where people walk to get groceries, catch their bus, and go out to eat.

[Nathan]

Those are still coastal climates... They don't get as cold as we do and stay cold (under melting point) for as long as we do. Other more similar cities Like Calgary have also utilized skyway systems.

And, no, you're right. Do people NEED skyways? No, of course not. But that isn't a good enough reason to tear them down. Just tell everyone, including handicapped seniors that they have to go tough it in the snow and cold. Good luck. I bet whenTarget corp is recruiting in Southern California, I bet it's nice to be able to say, but you never have to go out in the cold! It's a matter of comfort, not need. The issue isn't whether or not skyways are good or bad, because they obviously benefit the city. The issue is how the buildings and businesses have chosen to address the street.

[TheUrbanGopher]

Anyone else notice that they are planning a "Woonerf or shared space" down the old rail corridor?

[twincitizen]

Not sure if there are any changes from before, but these plans were attached to the most recent HPC agenda: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 116894.pdf

[seanrichardryan]

That's a lot of surface parking.

[seanrichardryan]

It's back on the HPC Agenda: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/hpc/WCMS1P-125430

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 125438.pdf

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 125437.pdf

[Architorture]

It's for phase 2, the building on the east side of the site. It's a 5 story senior apartment building with a level of memory care. It's primarily buff brick and metal with a brick base.

[min-chi-cbus]

So what's the latest with phase I -- is it approved/under construction?

I like the attitude of the girl in slide 11 -- it could just as easily be one of us looking at this project!

[Wedgeguy]

I look forward to having those massive parking lot's filled in with building to finish that area out. It will make walking in that area much better. Will look forward to how they make the woofner connect to the park area and the river road.

[minnyapple]

Heres an article about Phase two for senior housing. Nice to see more surface parking go away.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... ge_gallery

[twincitizen]

Per F&C, both phases/buildings will break ground next March-ish. A general contractor has been selected for Phase 1 (affordable apartments, possibly marketed to seniors), but not yet for Phase 2 (affordable senior only). It could very well be the same GC for both.

It would be interesting to hear what effect, if any, these new buildings will have on values of the adjacent Riverwest Condos. On one hand, these new buildings are filling in a barren surface parking lot and dramatically urbanizing the block, adding ground floor retail, increasing demand for existing nearby retail/restaurants/etc., and that neat woonerf street between the 2 buildings. On the other hand, both buildings are 100% affordable, though largely targeted to seniors. I'd venture to guess than any negative impact on property values directly caused by this project is unlikely. There's so much improvement going on in the area, and so much new luxury construction nearby, that the addition of a couple hundred lower-income units to the area isn't really going to be noticed much.

[seanrichardryan]

I tend to think of Riverwest as the 'affordable' condo choice in downtown.

[Architorture]

To my knowledge the Phase 2 senior apartments are intended to be market rate. There may be some assistance on the memory care units as those get very expensive, the MN monthly average is roughly $4000 a month. This being new construction may be $5,000+.

[contrast]

Per F&C, both phases/buildings will break ground next March-ish. A general contractor has been selected for Phase 1 (affordable apartments, possibly marketed to seniors), but not yet for Phase 2 (affordable senior only). It could very well be the same GC for both.

It would be interesting to hear what effect, if any, these new buildings will have on values of the adjacent Riverwest Condos. On one hand, these new buildings are filling in a barren surface parking lot and dramatically urbanizing the block, adding ground floor retail, increasing demand for existing nearby retail/restaurants/etc., and that neat woonerf street between the 2 buildings. On the other hand, both buildings are 100% affordable, though largely targeted to seniors. I'd venture to guess than any negative impact on property values directly caused by this project is unlikely. There's so much improvement going on in the area, and so much new luxury construction nearby, that the addition of a couple hundred lower-income units to the area isn't really going to be noticed much.

I think it will have a very positive effect on Riverwest values just for the simple fact that those south facing condo owners now know that their view of downtown is now guaranteed for the next 50 years. Even though (I think?) this block has a height restriction due to mill district, until something is actually built, those guidelines could have changed resulting in taller towers if market conditions start encouraging more height in the mill district.

[Andrew_F]

Looks like they're using real brick (not just veneer) for this. It also sounds like the first two floors may be cast concrete rather than stick.

Sounds promising, hopefully this is well executed.

Edit: I should specify that I was talking about phase 2. Phase 1 is pretty much standard issue.