Downtown Minneapolis Retail News

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:46 pm

I doubt they are actually entertaining the thought of leaving downtown entirely. That would be a massive blow.
Would it?
YES. It can't be denied that the last massive department store leaving downtown would be a blow. Of course it would.
They wouldn't be the last department store to leave downtown. They wouldn't even be the largest to leave.

Again, what if that space were leased to several high-end retailers?

MNdible
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby MNdible » November 20th, 2014, 1:47 pm

I haven't read the article (because it's locked), but I'm thinking this is just a reboot of their earlier efforts to earn some income off of all of the vacant office space that's on the upper floors of this big complex.

I'm sure that they have more retail space in the building than they need. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually consolidated to four levels total -- the below grade martketplace, and three levels above grade. But I don't see any reason to think that they'd want to move out of the building completely. Downtown Minneapolis is on the upswing, and they're sitting on a great (if too big) piece of property, and they just need to figure out some ways to reconfigure the internal circulation within the building to open up some new revenue streams.

David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:48 pm

The future of downtown retail is more with the Askov-Finlaysons than with the department store - I like how the Downtown Macy's has a large selection and better service than the malls, but still how often do most people go to a department store to shop? These old department stores used to do more than just clothing. They still have the housewares departments, but I can't imagine they do well compared to online. I'm young, and I remember my family buying a TV and a computer at a Dayton's in the 90s. Retail has changed so much - the best option for downtown is to have a mix of small retailers that are true unique destinations unlike anywhere else in the metro, and baseline retail like Target and Walgreen's for downtown residents.
That's exactly right. Dayton's used to sell lots more different kinds of things than Macy's does today. Target took over that portion for them. It turns out that more people need basic housewares and electronics than fancy clothes. Thus, large department stores are struggling. Smaller boutiques can handle the more fickle high end of the market.

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 1:51 pm

They wouldn't be the last department store to leave downtown. They wouldn't even be the largest to leave.

Again, what if that space were leased to several high-end retailers?

What other department store is left? Target doesn't really count as a traditional department store, and as far as size i'm not even sure there has ever been another department store downtown as big as Macy's (Dayton's). I think Powers and Donaldsons were smaller. So I am not sure what you mean?

Again, What makes you think high end retailers would be interested. Pretty much all large scale high end retail has exitied the downtown market the past several years. We are getting boutique type places yes(which is great) mostly in the north loop, but I don't think any large scale high end retailer would be interested.

Edit...i get your point there...broken up and leased. Could work...I still don't think high end seems to be interested though. Anyway, this is all hypothetical, but I guess this is the thread for that!
Last edited by mnmike on November 20th, 2014, 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 1:55 pm

That's exactly right. Dayton's used to sell lots more different kinds of things than Macy's does today. Target took over that portion for them. It turns out that more people need basic housewares and electronics than fancy clothes. Thus, large department stores are struggling. Smaller boutiques can handle the more fickle high end of the market.
Also, Macy's hardly sells "fancy" clothes. They have some, sure, but most of the stuff is mid market at best....if that.
Last edited by mnmike on November 20th, 2014, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xandrex
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby xandrex » November 20th, 2014, 1:55 pm

Perhaps this is being pedantic, but why would Askov Finlayson want to move to the Mall? They very much fit in with the North Loop culture (presumably you'd have to drag along their other outfits if they did move as well, no?)
Location, location, location. They'd get a lot more visibility on the Mall. I only learned about them when someone posted something here. I'll bet 99% of people in the city don't even know they exist.

I'm not sure what you mean by "other outfits."
Perhaps they'd get most eyeballs, but is that necessarily what they're going for? Surely they could have nabbed CBD space when they first opened (they're not exactly cash strapped). And they're kind of doubling down on their current location. Nicollet Mall is nice (I do love it), but it's not cool. The North Loop is.

By "other outfits," I meant the Bachelor Farmer and Marvel Bar. A bunch of reviews online (plus anecdotes in real life) seem to indicate that people like to wander into Askov Finlayson while they're waiting to get seated. If they still want that mingling, they're going to need to need to move everything.

mullen
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mullen » November 20th, 2014, 2:17 pm

that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.

xandrex
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby xandrex » November 20th, 2014, 2:22 pm

that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
In the future they might shrink it, but as someone who worked there for a time, I think the view that it's "too big" comes from people who visit during working hours or shortly thereafter. During that time, yeah, it's too big: Grocery aisles are packed, but a lot of the clothing sections and electronics and such aren't so much. But there are a huge number of people who do their everyday shopping there on evenings and weekends. I sold a lot of clothes, video games, televisions, children's toys, etc. But a lot of that would be invisible to the average office worker.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 20th, 2014, 2:42 pm

I haven't read the article (because it's locked), but I'm thinking this is just a reboot of their earlier efforts to earn some income off of all of the vacant office space that's on the upper floors of this big complex.

I'm sure that they have more retail space in the building than they need. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually consolidated to four levels total -- the below grade martketplace, and three levels above grade. But I don't see any reason to think that they'd want to move out of the building completely. Downtown Minneapolis is on the upswing, and they're sitting on a great (if too big) piece of property, and they just need to figure out some ways to reconfigure the internal circulation within the building to open up some new revenue streams.
The article simply talks about them wanting to lease or sell the upper floors - which they've talked about for years. Their retail space is not discussed - except for suggesting that someone may buy the whole building and they'd lease the space back. Macy's has plenty of locations that probably don't pay for themselves - this may be one of them. But the high visibility of this store makes it more likely to stay open, even if under performing.

The company I work for (large retail) has several locations like this. Either the rents in very high profile locations are so high that it makes the store unable to be profitable, or it's just not desirable enough to lure enough people in to shop. But we won't close them. I suspect Macy's has many other worse-off stores than our downtown store!
that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
I was one of the opening managers for the DT Target. I assure you that the store performs very well and is appropriately sized. I doubt they will downsize it, certainly not anytime soon.

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 2:59 pm

Yeah, I think the size of the downtown Target is very appropriate...it's about the size of a normal store I believe (145k sq feetish?). I've even thought they could use more space at times...for a full grocery.

TroyGBiv
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby TroyGBiv » November 20th, 2014, 4:55 pm

Target isn't going to do anything to their downtown store. With headquarters on the next block this store is the lab for buyers, MPD, training, ops, vendors etc... When I worked at corporate we would have to drive way out into the suburbs to meet with vendors or buyers and it would end up wasting half a day. This store has strong sales in every dept and there is no reason to limit potential sales. If the format didn't work that would be different... The real opportunities for retail in the downtown is for the street facades to open up to provide a more visual and more active environment in coordination with the mall renovation... the interior shopping spaces like City Center and Gaviidae have been fading and may end up not being the preferred shopping format anymore. Back as recently as the early 1980's block after block of department stores and other stores ran block after block... the side streets had a ton of small shops - the decades since have had retail ups and downs.... There are a lot of factors downtown that are changing... I hope that the downtown can coordinate a more exciting shopping environment. Michigan Avenue may be a good goal... large scale coordination seems like the key to any improvements.

IllogicalJake
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby IllogicalJake » November 20th, 2014, 5:37 pm

that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
I really can't understand how anyone can feel it's too big... Do you feel it sells too many things, or do you think it takes up too much space? It seems odd to just say "it's too big," especially with the influx of residential to the downtown area.

I shop there every couple of days and have always wished it were bigger. I honestly thought it was three stories before I moved here, heh.
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John
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby John » November 20th, 2014, 6:14 pm

that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
I really can't understand how anyone can feel it's too big... Do you feel it sells too many things, or do you think it takes up too much space? It seems odd to just say "it's too big," especially with the influx of residential to the downtown area.

I shop there every couple of days and have always wished it were bigger. I honestly thought it was three stories before I moved here, heh.
I shop there every couple days as well, as do most of my neighbors. It's not too big if you live downtown and actually use it. It's part grocery store, hardware store, and drug store, etc for many downtown residents. It's very successful (in sales per square foot) for a Target store from what I've heard.

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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby twincitizen » November 21st, 2014, 8:52 am

A visual timeline of the Dayton's building additions: http://danwhittaker.com/tea/mod/HTML/sld154.htm (h/t: mattaudio)

(Click forward or backward in the slideshow for additional Dayton's images)

MplsSteve
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby MplsSteve » November 21st, 2014, 9:30 am

This is more of a general comment. We hear so much about the gradual extinction of the department store as a retail format. I have to think that a lot of it is due to the fact that the few remaining players just don't seem to try very hard anymore. Locally we lament the loss of Daytons, but we're hardly alone. I've read many complaints from other parts of the country where Macy's has bought out local department store chains. They all agree that those stores now have a very dull, neglected feel. Department stores used to be cool places to shop. How did this change happen, and more importantly how did the people in charge allow it to happen? I know some of it was inevitable (online shopping, big box stores), but you have to feel that a lot of these retailers didn't even try to stay relevent.

xandrex
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby xandrex » November 21st, 2014, 10:00 am

With headquarters on the next block this store is the lab for buyers, MPD, training, ops, vendors etc...
Downtown was the test store, but they realized it didn't accurately represent their stores due to its urban setting and very heavy use by its own employees just across the street. The test store has been the Quarry for several years now. Pretty much everything new that Target is planning on rolling out nationwide (new products, technology enhancements, store layouts) gets tested there.

mullen
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mullen » November 21st, 2014, 10:58 am

i didn't know that. I'll have to get up the quarry location to check that out. i assumed dt target was still the test store. that dt store still feels very oversized. but wasn't it their first attempt at a dowtown site? or one of the first.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby FISHMANPET » November 21st, 2014, 11:00 am

Lake St is also a test store sometimes, they tested some weird checkout lane where there was a single line and a computer would call you to the right register when it was open.

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HiawathaGuy
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 21st, 2014, 11:02 am

But wasn't it their first attempt at a dowtown site? or one of the first.
No, they had several other multi-level stores long before they opened this store. There are things specifically unique to our downtown store though (like the stockroom levels, etc.), but ours was certainly not the first to have levels in an urban area.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby FISHMANPET » November 21st, 2014, 11:31 am

But it does predate the CityTarget brand, right?

I went to one of those in Chicago, and other than being in an older renovated space, it seemed normal to me.

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