Uptown - LynLake - The Wedge - News & General

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
amiller92
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby amiller92 » June 15th, 2021, 8:02 pm

Come see our brand new no go zone.
Weird, I keep trying to and not finding anything. Maybe it's 'cause my time to be able to get there is mornings and weekends?

amiller92
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby amiller92 » June 15th, 2021, 8:09 pm

Unfortunately, properties have changed hands at valuations that require an Apple Store or a Victoria's Secret level rent to pencil out.
Except Victoria's Secret isn't a high-value renter anymore, which is why it is gone. Which isn't to say that you're wrong, just that the things evolve.
Taking it further, I also explicitly said that crime isn't the problem. It's a problem that (I hypothesize) hits Hennepin and Lake harder than, say, LynLake for exactly the reasons above.
I do not understand the implied assertion that there is more crime in Uptown than LynLake. Or you just mean LynLake patrons aren't so scared of the city? That seems like an easy thing for Uptown to fix.
I totally believe Juut when they say it's the nail in the coffin
LOL

tedlanda2571
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » June 15th, 2021, 9:20 pm


Except Victoria's Secret isn't a high-value renter anymore, which is why it is gone. Which isn't to say that you're wrong, just that the things evolve.
But has that building changed hands? I'd be willing to bet that however many years ago the owner underwrote the building with a Victoria's Secret type tenant in mind and has been hoping against hope that they can get another one as it's the only way the price they paid makes sense. Their only other option is to sell at a big loss, or send the keys back to the bank (either of which is exactly what I think we will see happen more, and will be a long run positive thing).
I do not understand the implied assertion that there is more crime in Uptown than LynLake. Or you just mean LynLake patrons aren't so scared of the city? That seems like an easy thing for Uptown to fix.
I mean neither of those things, nor did I say them or mean to imply them. I mean that the whole premise of Hennepin and Lake was built on a BS business plan, one that is <more> sensitive to retail decline, <more> sensitive to the impacts of a pandemic, and, yes, <more> sensitive to increased crime than is the commercial presence at LynLake.

Irina's is a tailor shop. Caffrey's is a sandwich shop. Royal Pet is a pet groomer. I'll bet that 90% of the business that each of those establishments generates comes from less than a mile away. Even if the area gets 'sketchier', it probably has very little impact on their business. At least as long as it doesn't get so bad that they themselves feel at risk...

Chino Latino or Juut (or Apple Store, or MAC)? Yeah, I think that both pandemic and increased crime could definitely affect those businesses more. Was it more pandemic or more crime? Certainly the pandemic for Chino, but a salon? For the most part salons have gotten through the pandemic OK (and even better recently according to my sister in law). Why is it unreasonable to think that a bunch of ladies that have probably gone to the same stylist for years (and since moved out to the burbs) might read the headlines and say, "nah, at this point I'll just go somewhere closer/safer." It doesn't have to be all or even most of those folks. It just has to be <enough> of them.
I totally believe Juut when they say it's the nail in the coffin
LOL
I dunno, LOL back at you? The stock response of many on this board seems to be that the business excuse of crime is always and everywhere covering up for a mismanaged business. Newsflash: there's <always> some break point above which a business makes sense, and below which it does not. And many businesses don't operate a long way above that point. As such, I completely don't understand the notion that it's inconceivable that an increase in crime (real or perceived) might cause, oh I don't know, a 10-20% reduction in business that causes a modestly successful enterprise to no longer make sense. And again, especially in an area like Hennepin and Lake that was built on the faulty notion of destination retail.

Didier
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Didier » June 15th, 2021, 9:55 pm

But has that building changed hands? I'd be willing to bet that however many years ago the owner underwrote the building with a Victoria's Secret type tenant in mind and has been hoping against hope that they can get another one as it's the only way the price they paid makes sense. Their only other option is to sell at a big loss, or send the keys back to the bank (either of which is exactly what I think we will see happen more, and will be a long run positive thing).
This is the scenario I wonder about. There's a narrative here that Uptown is just going to adapt from "destination" retail to "local" retail, but there's a ton of retail space in Uptown, much of it designed for higher-end stores or restaurants. Is there any precedent for a retail district transforming in this way?

IMO the more likely scenario is that the cycle begins anew, with Calhoun Square trying to attract new "destinations" while the Uptown landlords wait until things stabilize some and then go after the 2020s version of Victoria's Secret, Urban Outfitters, etc. Like baseball, you either hit a home run or strike out.

Minneboy
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Minneboy » June 15th, 2021, 10:33 pm

I hope they bring back the brothels.

tedlanda2571
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby tedlanda2571 » June 16th, 2021, 2:05 pm

But has that building changed hands? I'd be willing to bet that however many years ago the owner underwrote the building with a Victoria's Secret type tenant in mind and has been hoping against hope that they can get another one as it's the only way the price they paid makes sense. Their only other option is to sell at a big loss, or send the keys back to the bank (either of which is exactly what I think we will see happen more, and will be a long run positive thing).
This is the scenario I wonder about. There's a narrative here that Uptown is just going to adapt from "destination" retail to "local" retail, but there's a ton of retail space in Uptown, much of it designed for higher-end stores or restaurants. Is there any precedent for a retail district transforming in this way?

IMO the more likely scenario is that the cycle begins anew, with Calhoun Square trying to attract new "destinations" while the Uptown landlords wait until things stabilize some and then go after the 2020s version of Victoria's Secret, Urban Outfitters, etc. Like baseball, you either hit a home run or strike out.
Well, you certainly could be right. But I'd again point to Calhoun Square selling in 2019 at a 25% discount to where it sold in 2007. Even with the financial crisis retail real estate prices in general didn't drop 25% over that period - so the performance here is much worse than typical. When you couple that with relatively low interest rates, I gotta think the absolute rent dollars Seven Points needs to support an acceptable return on investment are much lower now, even if they turn around and invest a few million in a facelift...

uptownbro
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby uptownbro » June 16th, 2021, 2:13 pm

Agreed. Assuming Seven point is run competently vs just "area hype" they should be able to have lower rent prices thus attract/keep tenets far better.

RedDutch
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby RedDutch » June 17th, 2021, 6:13 am

They bought Calhoun Square with the overall vision of building two residential buildings and transforming the entire block into something much different. Seven Points (i have a really hard time calling it that) has struggled for decades. I am encouraged that the new ownership sees a new vision and is stopping the madness of trying to force a failing business model!!!

Tcmetro
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Tcmetro » June 25th, 2021, 4:43 pm

The Dinkytown McDonald's getting ripped down gives me hope that the Uptown one will meet the same fate one day.

RedDutch
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby RedDutch » June 26th, 2021, 6:10 am

They just renovated it several years ago.........but I wish it would go away as well!!!

Mdcastle
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » June 26th, 2021, 9:57 pm

People in Uptown don't want the opportunity to be able to eat at McDonalds?

One side effect of the city's drive thru ban is that makes locations with existing ones extremely ultra-valuable and thus a lot less likely to be redeveloped for other uses since companies know they can't just build new ones elsewhere. See how Raising Canes is specifically taking over the old Arby's that was destroyed by criminals in the riots, and even custom designing a building to use the existing foundation to keep the drive-thru, rather than building a stock prototype on some random lot like the normal pattern for fast-food development.

grant1simons2
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby grant1simons2 » June 27th, 2021, 5:36 am

The opportunity to be able to eat McDonald's

Tcmetro
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Tcmetro » June 27th, 2021, 9:36 am

Luckily there's another McDonald's a little over a mile to the east, where MnDot has graciously added ramps so you can get back on the highway after getting some drive-thru food. (That location should be destroyed and replaced with a real building too).

alexschief
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby alexschief » June 27th, 2021, 10:42 am

The primary guarantor of the the opportunity to be able to eat at McDonalds should be the McDonalds corporation and not the City of Minneapolis in my opinion, but perhaps that's a minority view.

rynet91
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby rynet91 » July 1st, 2021, 9:08 am

Speaking of drive-thru's does anyone have an update on the Burger King at 34th and Nicollet? It was a bit of a rollercoaster of a story as far I know. The franchise owner closed the location, shortly after Minneapolis enacted the drive-thru ban, and then corporate BK took over the location and appealed to the city that the location was just in transition and they deserve to be grandfathered into the ban. The city give them like 6 months to open, which they didn't, then they got an extension which said they had to open by this spring. I haven't walked over there to see if the location ever opened or not.

I'd be happy if they just decided to sell, it would be fantastic to see the YMCA using that lot for an expansion building.

BoredAgain
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby BoredAgain » July 1st, 2021, 9:24 am

They did not open. There is now a dumpster outside, which is new.

minntransplant
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby minntransplant » July 1st, 2021, 12:03 pm

Speaking of drive-thru's does anyone have an update on the Burger King at 34th and Nicollet? It was a bit of a rollercoaster of a story as far I know. The franchise owner closed the location, shortly after Minneapolis enacted the drive-thru ban, and then corporate BK took over the location and appealed to the city that the location was just in transition and they deserve to be grandfathered into the ban. The city give them like 6 months to open, which they didn't, then they got an extension which said they had to open by this spring. I haven't walked over there to see if the location ever opened or not.

I'd be happy if they just decided to sell, it would be fantastic to see the YMCA using that lot for an expansion building.
That is most interesting. I did a public data request and found out that they are now planning on demolishing and reconstructing the store, but as noted in another comment, there is now some activity on the site. So perhaps the plan has changed and they just want to renovate (which is what they are doing for the Broadway location in North, but I'm not sure if any work has started). I didn't see anything in the records I received about granting an extension for Nicollet/34th, but I did discover an exchange between planning department staff that as long as the owner intends to continue using the drive thru, they get to keep their entitlements in perpetuity. In other words, the city's apparent position is that if a franchisee backs out for whatever reason, they get to preserve the nonconforming use as long as they are searching for a new operator. But I really don't think that is accurate when you look at what the code says (531.40).

For full disclosure - I sued the city over this one and have been operating under the understanding that BK had 1 year to resume the use from the date my suit ended (which was back in Oct 2020).

amiller92
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby amiller92 » July 1st, 2021, 1:49 pm

One side effect of the city's drive thru ban is that makes locations with existing ones extremely ultra-valuable
I am not sure that is true. The franchise agreement certainly have restrictions on how close a new franchise can be, which is likely more protection than the drive thru ban.

Mdcastle
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » July 1st, 2021, 5:14 pm

Luckily there's another McDonald's a little over a mile to the east, where MnDot has graciously added ramps so you can get back on the highway after getting some drive-thru food. (That location should be destroyed and replaced with a real building too).
Well, if the people of Uptown consider being an additional mile away from a McDonald's fine then I guess that's their prerogative. Not far for those that have cars, but would seem to be a long walk.

Mdcastle
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Re: Uptown-LynLake-Wedge - News & General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » July 1st, 2021, 5:20 pm

One side effect of the city's drive thru ban is that makes locations with existing ones extremely ultra-valuable
I am not sure that is true. The franchise agreement certainly have restrictions on how close a new franchise can be, which is likely more protection than the drive thru ban.
If a a Krusty Burger doesn't want to reuse a drive-thru site because it's too close to another Krusty Burger, the site is still extremely valuable because the drive thru grandfathering can be used by a different fast food. Even fast casual places are now favoring prototypes with drive thrus so would be attracted to those sites.

As far as Burger King, during the pandemic they radically redesigned their prototypes to de-emphasize or even completely eliminate in-person dining and include contactless pickup options both inside (Burger Lockers) and outside (designated pickup spaces) for app / delivery orders. Maybe they want to make more changes to the buildings to be more like the prototypes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoHONJCu4T0&t=16s


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