Theater Garage Marquee Apartments - (Franklin & Lyndale)

[clf]

I am unconcerned with my rent. I am more concerned with the viability of this project. I am an accountant and have worked in real estate so I have reservations. This project differs from those closer to uptown or their other development on Nicollet, which I might add already has some repair issues, the residential/retail mix changes from neighborhood which needs to be addressed in any project of this kind.

[FISHMANPET]

You're basing the lack of viability on what you personally are willing to pay for your current apartment. These apartments will most likely be bigger than what you have now, and they will have more amenities. And existing downtown and North Loop real estate has proven that these are rent levels that some people are willing to pay.

[clf]

they will have more amenities. And existing downtown and North Loop real estate has proven that these are rent levels that some people are willing to pay.

Amenities such as? And again, this in not downtown or North Loop, location makes a difference. It is not necessary to argue for the sake of arguing.

[gpete]

CLF, we have heard the same point from you over and over. We understand that you don't think it's a financially viable project; duly noted.

[lordmoke]

Say some apartments don't get leased. It's not going to be empty- there is at least one person somewhere that's going to move in here. That's more people than are living in the parking lot now, so a net gain in activity for the neighborhood. he apartments aren't street level, so their vacancy will have minimal impact on street life. The number of retail spaces in this building is the same as what's currently there, plus the restaurant. The developer stated at the meeting last night that the retail spaces were 70% spoken for already, and by long-term tenants. Theater Garage will still be here, and as a part owner of the building won't be leaving. Plenty of activity, a lack of which is what I assume you are concerned about with an underutilized development (correct me if I'm wrong about that.)

The only concerns about this development with solid merit are the impact on the Aldrich neighbors, and possibly the park. I'm also of the personal opinion that the corner should stand out more as a gateway building, but what's proposed now is not going to ruin the neighborhood.

[clf]

I'm sorry, I guess this is the wrong place to have a difference of opinion. I was hoping for a reasonable explanation that might lessen my concerns. This is obviously not the forum.

[Nathan]

The only concerns about this development with solid merit are the impact on the Aldrich neighbors, and possibly the park. I'm also of the personal opinion that the corner should stand out more as a gateway building, but what's proposed now is not going to ruin the neighborhood.

This.

[bubzki2]

I'm sorry, I guess this is the wrong place to have a difference of opinion. I was hoping for a reasonable explanation that might lessen my concerns. This is obviously not the forum.

If you're arguing for keeping surface lots over new development ... yeah probably the wrong place ...

[Tyler]

I'm sorry, I guess this is the wrong place to have a difference of opinion. I was hoping for a reasonable explanation that might lessen my concerns. This is obviously not the forum.

What scenario do you see playing out as a result of this lack of viability? What's the end result of such a scenario and how would it damage the neighborhood specifically?

[TommyT]

I'm sorry, I guess this is the wrong place to have a difference of opinion. I was hoping for a reasonable explanation that might lessen my concerns. This is obviously not the forum.

What scenario do you see playing out as a result of this lack of viability? What's the end result of such a scenario and how would it damage the neighborhood specifically?

We're really going to keep going with this?

[Nathan]

I'm sorry, I guess this is the wrong place to have a difference of opinion. I was hoping for a reasonable explanation that might lessen my concerns. This is obviously not the forum.

If your concern was that they were going to cost too much for the neighborhood and that the building was going to go vacant we all shared our insight as to why we didn't think that was going to happen, Matt even Item by item went through and addressed each issue that you brought up. But you failed to look at any of those things as legitimate, when they are. So what else should we do?

These are market rate apartments being built because of demand, demand for this price of units shows little sign of slowing down, it's economics and it's been published many times. Outside of another financial crisis, it's very unlikely that this is over building or will flop, or damage retail vitality in the neighborhood.

Is this project perfect no. Will there ever be a perfect project? No.

[NickP]

Please back off CLF friends. His personal concerns are valid. @clf, what was this company's other project?

[clf]

Please back off CLF friends. His personal concerns are valid. @clf, what was this company's other project?

Greenleaf Lofts http://mastermn.net/projects.html
Retaining walls and other interior issues have been reported.
Thank you for your comment. As they say, accountants can only talk to each other, so I will be moving on from this sight to better conversations.

[Tyler]

Or you could produce some decent arguments and add something to the discussion?

[Wedgeguy]

Sorry I've been missing out here. All one has to do is to look at the south end of Lyndale. While Uptown does affect that area, Lyndale in it's own right has staying power. Lake to 27th has a very low vacancy rate. Part of this is due to the new condo's and apartments built in the later few years. The apartment building at 28th and Lyndale is fully leased. This building is not Uptown, it is truly Lynlake. As has been brought up before, this very area 10 years ago was similar to current Franklyn, except that Franklyn had the Wedge that drew customers to the Wedge only. There was little foot traffic from there to any of the other businesses in the immediate area. There is now a critical core of neighbors that walk over to these Lynlake stores, restaurants, and theaters which at this point Franklyn is unable to do.
When I walk from Franklin to my home near the greenway I rarely ever stop at businesses along there. Because there are few businesses that the immediate neighbors or I want to walk to. The few that are there don't have services or products that I want. Franklyn's problem is that the stretch of Franklyn between 24th and Franklin has terrible street presence. La Persian's problem is no one want to invest in a retail area, that has financial issues possibly hanging over it. Who thinks that a walk by a car wash and Laundromat on there way to a cool looking building is really kind of gross and creepy. There is a funky old house that has an independent business that has been there for some time that must make money to play bill. So businesses can survive, but probably not at the rent that would be needed at La Persian to make is financially viable. You have to have customer counts to make that happen. You have a SA on one corner and a car wash on another and a few old buildings that really need to be redeveloped into viable retail space The huge expanse of parking lots between 22nd and Franklin make people NOT want to walk along this area. That is the reason for the lack of businesses that want to locate and can make a go of it when they do try. The status quote is what is killing this neighborhood. This new building will enhance the look of this section of Lyndale.
Businesses are not going to invest without a reason. Tenants are the reason businesses want to locate to their customers. Parking is another, but I'd never want to park in the Rudolph's lot for fear of damage to my car with it's terrible setup. Here the parking garage make sense, even if it is a validated parking garage for customers and pay to those others. I can tell you the city is not going to put up a park free parking ramp in this area for you.

This section has potential, The Urban Bean, Leaning Pizza, Rudolphs, the stores on the west side of Lyndale opposite the Wedge. The Wedge is a blessing and a curse both. Mortinor's, the car wash, the Laundromat make the area feel unwelcoming. SA is a toss up as if it helps or hurts the neighborhood. It does provide convenience to many in the neighborhood.

Hope you have a 10 year lease on that apartment, because whether you want to or not, people who will pay more than you. They will be willing move into this neighborhood and will take over those apartments. The exodus to the burbs is over. The millennial's who work down town will want to move to this neighborhood because it is close to downtown, near the arts, restaurants, bike corridors, bus routes, the list goes on. People will continue to move into the city whether you want them or not. You can all fool yourself into thinking you can stop change. But something much bigger is happening out in the world that will sooner rather than later will cause these changes to happen. You see that with the city wanting to be 500k. That reason is another short story and I'll spare you that for now as I have to make supper here. Agree or disagree, I've stated some facts that are hard to ignore.

I've left out the apartment's on purpose because I see the condition of this neighborhood as much of the issue as the new building it's self. For now I'd like some feed back about what is holding back this neighborhood node right now. Thanks

[WestCoastDude]

Since moving into the area five years ago from Uptown proper I am thrilled to see movement towards redeveloping the Lyndale and Franklin corner. Like it or not, that intersection is a gateway intersection from downtown. As it stands it is ho-hum. I drive, bike or walk through there almost daily. This has potential to be a great and inviting intersection. In fact Lyndale can be better. Compare Lyndale to the beautiful Grand Ave in St Paul. Grand Ave wins hands down for style and appeal. And it has buildings that are at the height of the proposed development at Franklin/Lyndale.

[Wedgeguy]

I was expecting some rebuttal, so people are either tired of talking about this, or I nailed a lot of what needs to happen to get the area back into respectable graces. I see areas of East Lake, Eat Street, Central Ave N that had similar problems, that once they added new residences those people made the area their home and they patronized their neighborhood establishments. The influx of new residence at Lynlake is what accelerated the redevelopment of old buildings and brought in new businesses and INVESTMENT. There are enough examples in this city alone to show why this is a future asset and a catalyst to future investment of this retail node.

[min-chi-cbus]

I think part of it is that anytime you make a strong argument this late at night you'll see fewer rebuttles.

[garfield]

In my opinion, the greatest obstacle to rejuvenating this intersection is the Vision Loss Resources building. It has huge, blank walls that face Lyndale and Franklin, and a horrible loading dock facing Lyndale. The property is over two acres, which stretches along Lyndale to the bridge area. I know that it provides a great resource for the community, but the building and site itself are a huge detriment to this intersection.

The intersection itself is also pretty poorly designed. A lot of traffic coming from I-94 and the Lyndale/Hennepin split converge here, with the left turn lane (to go east on Franklin) often full, causing a backup on Lyndale. Not sure how to fix this, but it is troublesome for the vitality of the intersection as cars weaving through traffic are not conducive to pedestrians feeling welcome or safe.

The blue building on Lyndale directly north of Rudolph's (Agora Market) that used to have Quiznos, a coffeshop, a Fantastic Sams, and something else is totally vacant. It was developed by the same guy as Le Parisian, and was foreclosed upon a couple of years ago. This location has potential...I spoke with a hair cutter at the Fantastic Sams on Lake Street that said the now-closed location was much busier than the one on Lake, but they were sent packing by the bank. I think this building would be perfect for a local brewery, with operations upstairs and the food/taphouse on the first floor. I think once the financial part of the building is in order, tenants will follow pretty quickly.

The developer of Le Parisian told me years ago that he could have had the retail portion filled many times over, but he had an idealistic idea of the tenants he wanted. He envisioned a truly Parisian experience, with a small cafe, a small bakery, a wine bar, etc. The interested tenants I believe were a Snap Fitness (or similar) and a chain sandwich shop. Again, I think that once the financial side of this project becomes clear, tenants might fill the spaces pretty quickly.

If you remember, the first location for an "Uptown" Trader Joe's was the Car Wash, mechanic, and the cool house directly north of Le Parisian. They were apparently ready to sign, but because of Mineapolis' liquor store rules wouldn't allow their liquor sales, it never moved forward. So, people are interested in the location, there are just so many roadblocks (including neighbors that seem to be against ANYTHING) that it will be difficult for some projects to be built.

I think that the rest of Lyndale is actually in pretty good shape...The laundromat actually serves an important purpose for the neighborhood, especially since the one at 27th and Lyndale is closed. I love the fact that Leaning Tower and the CC Club are still there, and seem to be going strong. The Bulldog and French Meadow are always busy. Clown Glass, the nutrition store, and the pet store in that building seem to be doing great. The retail component of the Greenleaf Apartments actually filled up pretty quickly. I think that once the apartments along the Greenway are occupied, the surrounding neighborhood (including the Lyndale retail from the Greenway to Franklin) will get a boost.

[mplsjaromir]

This project seems to be a great addition to the area. It allows for the continuation and update of a cultural and a gastronomical institution. It appears it will spruce up a corner that in all honesty is rough around the edges.

There are concerns that need to be addressed, the way the building interacts with its westward neighbors and the whole park deal. Overall this is a slam dunk.

I do enjoy the excuses that the anti-development crowd come up with to reason their opposition. I believe in a level of Dirigisme, but I think ensuring enough profit for a private developer in an arm's length transaction is far beyond the city's purview. If the project fits is within the generally accepted principles for development in the city of Minneapolis, then its construction should be allowed.

I have a degree in accounting, I know many accountants, and I am certain there are long time Minnescraper/UrbanMSP forum users who are CPAs. Being an accountant gives one no special insight on commercial real estate development. If anything alert the entity who is funding this project about its viability or lack thereof.