4601 Minnehaha Ave S

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seanrichardryan
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4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby seanrichardryan » October 30th, 2020, 12:42 pm

120 market-rate units over commercial at the corner of Minnehaha & 46th St. To replace Geller Automotive and two houses.

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Hall Sweeney Properties is proposing a six-story apartment building at the intersection of East 46th Street and Minnehaha Avenue South in south Minneapolis.

Plans for the mixed-use building at 4601 Minnehaha Ave. S. call for 120 market-rate apartments above ground-level commercial space, including a fitness studio, co-working office and art gallery. The project occupies three parcels and would require the demolition of a gas station and two single-family homes.
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seanrichardryan
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby seanrichardryan » October 30th, 2020, 12:48 pm

Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

Anondson
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby Anondson » October 30th, 2020, 1:42 pm

What’s the 2040 zoning for here say?

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alexschief
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby alexschief » October 30th, 2020, 8:10 pm

Attractive design, decent parking ratio. Well-connected location right next to the aBRT stop and a few blocks from the Blue Line LRT.

Good project.

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby twincitizen » October 31st, 2020, 1:16 am

Tick tock for Falls Liquor and Falls Dentistry on the SW and NW corners of Minnehaha-46th. Either would be wise to think about moving into this project or the available commercial space in LoWa or MN46 (NE corner). Of course they could plan to return to commercial space in development of their own sites, but that would mean being closed for 18 months or more. I could see the liquor store taking a break like that, but that doesn’t work for a dentist office (a relatively new one at that). Hopefully Dr. Jakubas is paying attention, I believe she owns the property there

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby seanrichardryan » October 31st, 2020, 7:59 am

Aren't liquor stores generally difficult to move (or convince?) due to the weird Twin Cities zoning rules and licensing?
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MNdible
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby MNdible » October 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm

It's difficult to find a location for a *new* liquor store, and this is due partly to a need to find the right zoning, but primarily due to spacing relative to other existing liquor stores. It should be relatively easy to relocate an existing liquor store to another spot that's close to their current location, as that existing location already should meet the spacing standards.

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby Mdcastle » October 31st, 2020, 8:41 pm

Do they not own their own property? (Both those properties have owners matching the address on Hennepin County GIS). If so why would they trade an economical building they own for astronomical rent they probably can't afford in a building they don't own.

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby mattaudio » November 1st, 2020, 5:49 am

So they can cash out on a development

twincitizen
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby twincitizen » November 1st, 2020, 11:33 am

To Monte's point, even if they make a nice chunk of change on the property sale, assuming it's a family-owned/run business and they aren't independently wealthy, this scenario probably only happens if/when they're ready to retire or get out of the business. Retirement probably is the case for the car mechanic property.

Let's look at the owner-occupied dentist office property for a scenario. They paid $340k in 2013, now assessed at $518k. Let's say next year a developer pays $1MM for the 0.38 acre property (>$2MM per acre...pretty generous). Sure, the owner nets a ~$700k profit in 8 years but now has to buy another property nearby (say a cheaper location a few blocks up Minnehaha) and then remodel, etc. And pay capital gains tax on the difference between the sale and purchase price of a new property. And if they don't buy another property and move the business into a leased property, capital gains tax will be due on the whole profit, right? Is that all gonna be worth it? It does kinda seem more likely that they'd just stick around until ready to retire, or until property values / land demand increases even further.

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby smallbizowner » December 15th, 2020, 6:26 pm

120 units replacing the gas station and 2 duplexes, 54 units across the street at MN46, Lowa 46 phase 1 has 148 units, Lowa phase 2 another 144 units, 80ish units in the Shale, Portico at the Falls another 30ish. Where's the traffic and cars supposed to go? Both 46th and Hiawatha are truck routes and 46th sees heavy bus use. Westbound 46th frequently backs up because of trains.

And how many years will it be before the commercial spaces in this area get stable tenants? No parking on 46th and every street spot on Snelling is usually taken by a Lowa46 tenant. The space Venn Brewing is in (right next to the lrt station) sat vacant for over five years and Im guessing the spaces in Lowa facing 46th will be vacant for years to come.

The crime before George Floyd and Covid was bad in this area and now it's to the point where cars are getting stolen in the Cub parking lot midday. This intersection has always been a panhandler magnet; long turn signals, center medians, green space, liquor store, public bathroom at the gas station (now being rebuilt). Rampant shoplifting at Walgreens and Cub.

This is one of the more "pedestrian hostile" areas in the city. How is there anything good about this kind of density? Is there something I'm missing here?
Last edited by smallbizowner on December 15th, 2020, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anondson
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby Anondson » December 16th, 2020, 12:07 am

It’s fine, in fact.

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alexschief
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby alexschief » December 16th, 2020, 8:20 am

46th carries over 12,000 vehicles per day, I think it will survive 92 more cars. Filling the retail spaces is the developer's problem, I'll let them worry about it. In the long run, having more homes and fewer gas stations in this area will make it a lot less hostile to pedestrians.

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby amiller92 » December 16th, 2020, 8:44 am

120 units replacing the gas station and 2 duplexes, 54 units across the street at MN46, Lowa 46 phase 1 has 148 units, Lowa phase 2 another 144 units, 80ish units in the Shale, Portico at the Falls another 30ish. Where's the traffic and cars supposed to go? Both 46th and Hiawatha are truck routes and 46th sees heavy bus use. Westbound 46th frequently backs up because of trains.

And how many years will it be before the commercial spaces in this area get stable tenants? No parking on 46th and every street spot on Snelling is usually taken by a Lowa46 tenant. The space Venn Brewing is in (right next to the lrt station) sat vacant for over five years and Im guessing the spaces in Lowa facing 46th will be vacant for years to come.

The crime before George Floyd and Covid was bad in this area and now it's to the point where cars are getting stolen in the Cub parking lot midday. This intersection has always been a panhandler magnet; long turn signals, center medians, green space, liquor store, public bathroom at the gas station (now being rebuilt). Rampant shoplifting at Walgreens and Cub.

This is one of the more "pedestrian hostile" areas in the city. How is there anything good about this kind of density? Is there something I'm missing here?
You're kidding, right? 46th is horribly over-built, with way more capacity than needed.

Also, homes don't generate traffic. Destinations do.

smallbizowner
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby smallbizowner » December 16th, 2020, 9:48 am

46th carries over 12,000 vehicles per day, I think it will survive 92 more cars. Filling the retail spaces is the developer's problem, I'll let them worry about it. In the long run, having more homes and fewer gas stations in this area will make it a lot less hostile to pedestrians.
Not sure where you come up with the number 92. Looks like the city is heading towards a glut of overpriced commercial space and rental units. Empty retail/street level means fewer eyes on the street and more crime/vandalism. Spend some time in this area and see for yourself how pedestrian hostile it is. Sit in the walgreens parking lot for a while and watch the traffic patterns. And traffic is a shadow of what it was pre-covid.

I'm trying to understand what is good about this level of density who's benefitting from it?

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alexschief
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby alexschief » December 16th, 2020, 10:02 am

46th carries over 12,000 vehicles per day, I think it will survive 92 more cars. Filling the retail spaces is the developer's problem, I'll let them worry about it. In the long run, having more homes and fewer gas stations in this area will make it a lot less hostile to pedestrians.
Not sure where you come up with the number 92. Looks like the city is heading towards a glut of overpriced commercial space and rental units. Empty retail/street level means fewer eyes on the street and more crime/vandalism. Spend some time in this area and see for yourself how pedestrian hostile it is. Sit in the walgreens parking lot for a while and watch the traffic patterns. And traffic is a shadow of what it was pre-covid.

I'm trying to understand what is good about this level of density who's benefitting from it?
92 is the number of parking spaces proposed for the new development.

If the commercial space is overpriced, it won't lease, and the landlord will have to reduce the rent until they find a tenant. I agree that this area is hostile to pedestrians, which is why this project will help, because it will (1) add more pedestrians, (2) eliminate an auto-oriented use, (3) provide space for a ground floor retail tenant.

Anondson
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby Anondson » December 16th, 2020, 10:03 am

People who need housing benefit from abundant available homes, keeping vacancies under 5% it helps rent from climbing faster than inflation.

Eyes on the street can come from the windows facing the street of new residents who won’t need to sit in a parking lot to view the people on the sidewalks.

smallbizowner
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby smallbizowner » December 17th, 2020, 6:41 pm

Can anyone shed light on why so few condominiums are being built?

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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby Anondson » December 17th, 2020, 7:18 pm

Good question. Nearly every time I have seen the issue of the severe lack of condos in Minnesota looked into the answer nearly always comes to the state’s liability laws.

Something about the ease owners have to sue anyone and everyone involved in the construction of a building, but renters do not.

One story I remember reading was that there was a cottage industry among the local legal profession that targets condo and townhouse development “defects”. And of course, raising the costs of what does get built because of the raised talent of workers, raised quality of materials, and oversight involved in the construction at every step of the way.

Allegedly has dissuaded not only developers, but financiers, contractors, subcontractors, and architects from getting into projects to build projects where the residents will be owners, except the highest end of the market where costs don’t make people flinch.

schwinnletour
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Re: 4601 Minnehaha Ave S

Postby schwinnletour » December 18th, 2020, 10:13 am

And it's a 10 year liability for condo developers verse a 1 year liability for new construction home builders.

My guess is that the condo builder needs to carry insurance on each build which then needs to be factored into the sale price. Hence when you do see new condos, their prices are inflated over what one would believe it should cost even when factoring in the included parking space(s) they typically provide each unit.


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