Allianz Field and Snelling-Midway Development

[Didier]

Pioneer Press with a rundown on where everything stands with all of the involved parties. This implies that there's still a way to go, despite the report last well that an announcement could have come as soon as last week.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... -off-where

[amiller92]

It's too bad that the rational voices in this conversation didn't start to speak up until it's almost certainly now going to St. Paul.

In all honesty, I don't know which voices are the rational ones. Being opposed to subsidizing a stadium is not an irrational opinion, even for a small subsidy.

While I think a deal that would appeal to me should have been possible, I'm far more open to stadium subsidies than a lot of Minneapolis voters.

[MNdible]

You can quibble over the exact numbers on this, but it certainly looks like the costs to Minneapolis would have been effectively a wash. Lost property taxes, gained entertainment taxes. Added police costs, gained parking revenues. It's possible that some future development on that site would have generated a lot more property taxes than what's currently there, but now you're trading a bird in the hand for one in the bush.

Anyway.

I just find it hard to believe that Mayor Hodges really said no to a project that was going to bring in 20,000 visitors to downtown, 17 times a year, for effectively no city cost. And in the process, revitalizing a moribund corner of town.

[FISHMANPET]

And too bad because that land just fell off the face off the earth without a soccer stadium to be built on it, never to be seen or heard from again.

I just have a hard time believing that based on the current housing boom and the future light rail that the area won't be developed anyway. I mean yeah, it's not guaranteed, but I'd say it's pretty darn likely.

[MNdible]

Oh, I'm sure it will get developed, and probably sooner rather than later.

I'd conjecture, though, that had the stadium and associated Farmer's Markets improvements taken place, that the development on the surrounding land would have been denser and of higher quality than what will be built there without it.

[FISHMANPET]

That's an interesting thought, and one that I haven't seen anywhere. Not entirely sure I agree with it on its face, but I'm not willing to dismiss it out of hand either.

I think maybe that's what gets me most tired out by these stadium debates, is apparently it makes everybody an idiot. "Pro stadium" people are acting like it would be a tax blackhole forever no matter what happened. And while I kind of appreciate the "Read My Lips" stance taken by Hodges it didn't leave room for any wiggle room on net benefits.

[seanrichardryan]

It's going to be great! 'Schafer: St. Paul has the better location for a pro soccer stadium' http://www.startribune.com/admit-it-min ... 330191811/

[MNdible]

If half of the people attending the game arrive by LRT, how in the world are you going to load 10,000 people onto the trains without shutting down the intersection of University and Snelling?

[Nick]

Pedestrian bridges!

[Silophant]

Completely redoing the Snelling station into an elevated one <5 years after opening?

[seanrichardryan]

If half of the people attending the game arrive by LRT, how in the world are you going to load 10,000 people onto the trains without shutting down the intersection of University and Snelling?

Spruce Tree Avenue detour.

[nBode]

If there were a way (bridge, tunnel?) to get pedestrians across Snelling for westbound trains, there's access via Fry St to the westbound platforms. Eastbound platforms can be accessed by the Midway Shopping Center parking lot entrance. With proper signage, traffic flow could be maintained on Snelling. Although traffic flow on University is pretty much screwed.

*Edit: Also, would it be easier (theoretically) to sink University below-grade for a couple blocks than rebuilding the tracks onto a bridge? Although this method has flaws in disrupting traffic flow and still having tracks across Snelling.... Maybe not the best idea.

[mattaudio]

I think the most reasonable plan would actually be to move two to four lanes of Snelling underneath University and the Green Line. But keep sidewalks at grade. Then accommodate turning movements via Spruce Tree, and in effect encourage more connections to the Energy Park area via Pierce Butler/Transfer Rd etc. Train doesn't have to stop for Snelling traffic, Snelling doesn't have to stop for train traffic. This would involve major disruption for a period of time, but should be able to maintain all four corner buildings for the end product.

[Minnehahaha]

There was a tunnel proposal back around 2007 that involved a fair amount of demolition that didn't sit well with the neighborhood. It didn't help that at that time the intent seemed to be about making it easier for Roseville residents to drive to the airport (at least based on the quote in this article from Tony Bennett) http://www.twincities.com/ci_6316804

No, not the good Tony Bennett.

[MNdible]

There are certainly ways of solving the problem, but nobody is really discussing them when they talk about the St. Paul site, nor are they talking honestly about the cost of adding the necessary parking infrastructure.

[Tiller]

That's because you're supposed to bring up the public subsidies later, after all the papers have been signed! /snark

In seriousness, at least the improved infrastructure will be helpful.

[Wedgeguy]

According to the Strib's weekend edition the St. Paul port authority and the Met Council are now working together to get detail worked out with the team for the Midway site. Met Council with still out the land, with the city leasing it. The Stadium would go to the city once built and the team would lease the stadium from the city. No other word on the other development in the area and how other things would work.

[SteveXC500]

http://m.kstp.com/article.html#!/57601/ ... b539bc276d

[Didier]

Star Tribune reported today that the Minneapolis group is still meeting. That's about all the report said, though.

[seanrichardryan]

Star Tribune reported today that the Minneapolis group is still meeting. That's about all the report said, though.

How nice.