Bloomington - General Topics

Twin Cities Suburbs
Apollo
Block E
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Joined: April 17th, 2015, 11:28 pm

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Apollo » September 8th, 2021, 10:23 am

I guess I am excited to have a Hyvee on a rapid transit line(Orange), cause all the others are impossible to get to without a car.
Aren't you forgetting about the Mississippi Market that's literally a block from the Orange Line as well in the same area? Wish this area had more residential apartments than another grocery store. We have enough grocery store in the area, there's the Target, Mississippi Market, Aldi, and Cubs, now Hyvee? We don't need more. The newly built apartment building (Opened last year) in this same area are beautiful and I wish more were built than more commercial space.

Bakken2016
Target Field
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Location: North Loop

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Bakken2016 » September 8th, 2021, 6:11 pm

I guess I am excited to have a Hyvee on a rapid transit line(Orange), cause all the others are impossible to get to without a car.
Aren't you forgetting about the Mississippi Market that's literally a block from the Orange Line as well in the same area? Wish this area had more residential apartments than another grocery store. We have enough grocery store in the area, there's the Target, Mississippi Market, Aldi, and Cubs, now Hyvee? We don't need more. The newly built apartment building (Opened last year) in this same area are beautiful and I wish more were built than more commercial space.
Would you want to live at the intersection of two major interstates? I wouldn't.

Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
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Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » September 8th, 2021, 6:36 pm

I strongly disagree with the premise that Bloomington doesn't need more grocery stores. There's Aldi and Cub, where you have to bag your own groceries, and Cub isn't even particularly cheap or good. And while Cub has a decent selection, Aldi certainly does not. There's the astronomically priced places like Fresh Thyme, Festival, and Lunds. There's Target where they're convinced the problem with their grocery selection is not having fancy enough shelves as opposed to keeping non-store brand, non organic staples in stock (I tried to shop at Target twice and once they were out of regular butter, once out of Corn Flakes). There's Walmart, where having a police desk at the front entrance should tell you all you need to know. I've not heard of this Mississippi Market, but it sounds really limited and expensive.

Other than Bloomington needing a Hy-Vee, I have no strong feelings about this proposal. Maybe it's not cute enough for some, but stores empty for 5 years aren't attractive either. Maybe they can put apartments on top of Hy-Vee?

Apollo
Block E
Posts: 9
Joined: April 17th, 2015, 11:28 pm

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Apollo » September 8th, 2021, 10:45 pm

I strongly disagree with the premise that Bloomington doesn't need more grocery stores. There's Aldi and Cub, where you have to bag your own groceries, and Cub isn't even particularly cheap or good. And while Cub has a decent selection, Aldi certainly does not. There's the astronomically priced places like Fresh Thyme, Festival, and Lunds. There's Target where they're convinced the problem with their grocery selection is not having fancy enough shelves as opposed to keeping non-store brand, non organic staples in stock (I tried to shop at Target twice and once they were out of regular butter, once out of Corn Flakes). There's Walmart, where having a police desk at the front entrance should tell you all you need to know. I've not heard of this Mississippi Market, but it sounds really limited and expensive.

Other than Bloomington needing a Hy-Vee, I have no strong feelings about this proposal. Maybe it's not cute enough for some, but stores empty for 5 years aren't attractive either. Maybe they can put apartments on top of Hy-Vee?
I apologize, I meant Fresh Thyme nearby. I am used to having a Mississippi Market near my former place in St. Paul before I moved to the area. But Fresh Thyme is what I meant, my mistake.

I do agree with you on Target, they are barely a food store, and even after their renovations, it is still.... awful. I do shop at the Cub, I don't really have any complaint with it, it serves the need and is always busy. Cub and Hy-vee would be similarly priced since they are a similar grocery store no? Aldi is the cheapest one here and Fresh Thyme at the top of the spectrum.

I too have no strong feeling about this proposal, and too would rather see something active than a un-used store. But I think Kraus-Anderson could do better than a grocery store here. EDIT: On a second thought and reflection, Kraus-Anderson could come up with a better master plan for this area, I'm dissapointed it looks like an extension of a strip mall and less on the fact it's an grocery and liquor store. More green space, more height variation of the buildings, less parking lots, a look similar to the existing Fresh Thyme area, would be a much better proposal to me. As you said, I really do wish they added an apartment component on top of the liquor store, that would make all the difference for me, rather than more bland one story retail space. I rather see some height variation here in this area than bland one story strip mall stores. And yes I see the apartment component in the proposal, but theres no guarantee of them actually being built. If the area looked more as what it does near Fresh Thyme, I would be happy with that, it just looks more upscale and livable than a giant parking lot between one story commercial stores, it is no better than what's there now, just configured differently.

The picture of the hy-vee liquor store that the Star-Tribune showed as well, is well... uninspiring as well and has a giant brick wall in it, it just doesn't feel inviting or attractive to me. Again, I really do wish there were apartments on top of these commercial spaces. Another picture in the Buisness Journal, of a different perspective of the strip mall, just looks the same as the existing strip mall. It's very uninspiring and doesn't really make me want to stay in the area too long. Compare that to the area around Mallards and more smaller commercial spaces. The feel here is just strip-mall ish, and I get that it is already an strip mall, but I believed Bloomington in their master planning of the area wanted to move away from that. https://www.bloomingtonmn.gov/sites/def ... 012114.pdf Just look at that first page, that tells you everything. Instead we're getting more strip malls. Replacing a strip mall with another strip mall.


Bakken2016 -

Not if it is essentially a giant parking space, if it looked more like the area near the Fresh Thyme nearby, it would make it more livable. The area just needs to be a bit more urban and have less parking and less space dedicated for cars. Perhaps a park, or more green spaces, but one can dream.

Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
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Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » September 9th, 2021, 8:02 am

Image

The cities district plan. Notable that this area was rezoned for the plan, but I think they had a form more like a lifestyle center, maybe with 2nd floor offices, as opposed to apartments with ground floor retail. Possibly the idea is to buffer residential from the freeway.

In private discussions with another poster here, the city could probably kill the proposal if they want since it doesn't meet FAR requirements unless the future phases are counted in. Should be an interesting meeting between the developers, the liberal city government, the people that are clambering to save the bowling ally, and the people that are clambering for a Hy-Vee.

I've heard the suggestion "why doesn't Hy-Vee buy Cub", but that's not going to happen, first and foremost because after delaying the sale due to the pandemic, UNFI is starting to like the idea of keeping their existing retail operations. Also it seems Hy-Vee likes to expand slowly and cautiously, Cub is unionized, and the Cub stores are too small; Hy-Vee likes locations that are 130,000 square feet with gas pumps and a liquor store while Cub stores are more like 80,000 square feet.

Apollo
Block E
Posts: 9
Joined: April 17th, 2015, 11:28 pm

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Apollo » September 9th, 2021, 9:46 am

Honestly though, I hope the "side" of the "liberal city government" is the one asking for more from this proposal than more one story commercial space and a one story giant grocery store. Again, my problem isn't the type of retail, it is the density and lack of green space in this proposal that appears as if it is just an extension of the existing strip mall, just re-arranged differently. Hopefully the city comes back and requires apartments on top of the one story strip mall (the part with the liquor store) and I would be 100% happier even with just that.

Also with your comment about Hy-vee, we already have a similar store down the street with gas pump and all, I don't think we need another in this area, this area deserves better with a better visibility and this area is a bit more "urbanized" than where the Sam's Club is currently at. But again, my objection to this proposal is less about what it is, and more about the master planning associated with the proposal.

Also on Page 44 of the link I posted of the Penn-American study they city did, the city recommended they up-zone the area near the BRT for this exact reason, they wanted a more urban feel around the BRT stop. THis currently overlaps with the liquor store and a bit of Hyvee.
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Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
Posts: 951
Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » September 9th, 2021, 12:01 pm

I think we all agree this would be better with apartments on top of the strip mall, but I think the issue is that the strip mall section is going to be remodeled rather than rebuilt. Would making them rebuild it with apartments on top be enough to sink the project and result in Bloomington having to get by without a Hy-Vee and Herbergers being vacant for who knows how long? I don't know.

Looking at the hundreds of comments on the Bloomington Facebooks groups, it's overwhelmingly either "We need a Hy-Vee" or "Save the bowling alley". It's not 'This isn't dense enough" or "We already have enough shopping options".

Apollo
Block E
Posts: 9
Joined: April 17th, 2015, 11:28 pm

Re: Bloomington - General Topics

Postby Apollo » September 9th, 2021, 12:43 pm

Looking at the hundreds of comments on the Bloomington Facebooks groups, it's overwhelmingly either "We need a Hy-Vee" or "Save the bowling alley". It's not 'This isn't dense enough" or "We already have enough shopping options".
I get that from the public without an "urban planning" perspective that this forum is majorly focused in. Most general neighborhood people aren't looking in that kind of perspective, just in the perspective of the "now" and/or the "proposed."

My hopes is that the city will come back to them with a more urban planning perspective, or even apply some urban planning perspective on the people clammoring to save the bowling alley or build the Hy-vee. Why not save the bowling alley but knock down the vacant store and build the grocery store anyways and build apartments on top of the bowling alley. It could be done, yes it would cost money and/or require an new building for the bowling alley, but it could be done. After all it is the city who spent money on the Penn-American study with the study saying the area should be more "urban" with up-zoning specifically for the BRT. My hopes is that the city would try to enforce it a bit more strongly. I understand that beggars can't be choosers and we can't just choose an specific store or commercial property we want in a specific area, but we can choose to specify an area to be more "urban" by up-zoning and adding zoning requirements to an area, which is my point here.


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