Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
DanPatchToget
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby DanPatchToget » July 23rd, 2020, 10:10 pm

Is there an expected date for groundbreaking yet? If this is going to open by 2024 I would think construction has to start sometime next year.

Tcmetro
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Tcmetro » October 9th, 2020, 7:28 pm

60% design plans open for public comment through 10/16/2020. A video of the latest changes to the plans is available on the project page.

https://www.metrotransit.org/gold-line- ... ngineering

tmart
Rice Park
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby tmart » January 12th, 2021, 5:18 pm

The price of this thing is going up to $532M to add more parking spaces at stations, in an attempt to boost the FTA project rating.

https://www.startribune.com/gold-line-b ... 600009761/

I'm increasingly convinced this one needs to go back to the drawing board. When we're throwing parking spaces at the problem to try and get the ridership numbers to clear the bare minimum thresholds for matching funding, that's just not a recipe for good transit.

If we're spending half a billion dollars, let's tack a few stops onto the eastern end of the Green Line and offer better quality service to the first-ring spots (and maybe 3M) where the ridership potential is obvious. Or alternatively, let's build 10 aBRT lines--give, say, 3 of 'em to the Eastside to compensate--and make a quantum leap in our transit grid coverage.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby DanPatchToget » January 12th, 2021, 5:45 pm

The St. Paul Green Line facility is a major roadblock (or in this case a rail block) to extending the Green Line east, though maybe it could simply realign from 4th to Prince Street next to the Green Line facility. Then after turning onto Kellogg the Green Line could go where ever into the East Side. Or the more permanent but expensive solution of tunneling under Downtown St. Paul, which would replace the at-grade alignment. Either way I would be on board with an eastern extension of the Green Line into the East Side. I've kept an open mind to the Gold Line ever since they chose BRT for it, but east of 3M there just isn't a good way of serving that area with rapid transit whether it's bus or rail. How about Woodbury puts in serious effort to turn Woodbury Village and/or Tamarack Village from a sea of parking into mixed-use development and then we'll see about rapid transit going out there.

alexschief
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby alexschief » January 12th, 2021, 6:04 pm

Just a massive, massive indictment of FTA New Starts funding formulas.

Park and rides are a short term strategy, they're not a long term solution for ridership. We know what builds ridership over time, and it's housing and jobs and activities close to transit. Park and rides take up space that could otherwise be more productively used, and they put those productive uses further away from the stations.

I doubt that any Buttigeig-DOT reform would be in time to save this project from this stupid math, but I'd like to believe it might be possible.

Silophant
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Silophant » January 12th, 2021, 7:27 pm

Would converting a couple lanes of 94 to MnPass, adding a 46th St-style station at Snelling (I know that the bridge was just redecked five years ago) and extending it to Minneapolis to replace the 94 juice ridership as much as these parking spaces for a fraction of the cost, or is this the same FTA math that got us 3A over 3C for SWLRT, because the couple hundred brand new riders lured in by zooming through Kenwood were considered more valuable than the couple thousand existing bus riders coming from Uptown?

talindsay
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby talindsay » January 13th, 2021, 11:27 am

If we're spending half a billion dollars, let's tack a few stops onto the eastern end of the Green Line and offer better quality service to the first-ring spots (and maybe 3M) where the ridership potential is obvious. Or alternatively, let's build 10 aBRT lines--give, say, 3 of 'em to the Eastside to compensate--and make a quantum leap in our transit grid coverage.
I'd think that Ramsey County could extend the Green Line to Metro State with local funds only, fairly quickly, and meet a good portion of the need over there. Once that short extension was finished, they could then apply for a New Starts grant to extend it on to 3M, using the local cost of the extension to Metro State as the local match. They could build a large park-and-ride adjacent to the 3M station and I bet they'd meet 90% of the total Gold Line usage, while bringing much higher quality service to the core facilities on the line.

Trademark
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Trademark » January 14th, 2021, 1:20 pm

If we're spending half a billion dollars, let's tack a few stops onto the eastern end of the Green Line and offer better quality service to the first-ring spots (and maybe 3M) where the ridership potential is obvious. Or alternatively, let's build 10 aBRT lines--give, say, 3 of 'em to the Eastside to compensate--and make a quantum leap in our transit grid coverage.
I don't get why rail would be higher quality except for the ability to have a one seat ride especially with the tight turns that would be required to get out of downtown

I'd think that Ramsey County could extend the Green Line to Metro State with local funds only, fairly quickly, and meet a good portion of the need over there. Once that short extension was finished, they could then apply for a New Starts grant to extend it on to 3M, using the local cost of the extension to Metro State as the local match. They could build a large park-and-ride adjacent to the 3M station and I bet they'd meet 90% of the total Gold Line usage, while bringing much higher quality service to the core facilities on the line.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby DanPatchToget » April 15th, 2021, 9:33 am

Gold Line cleared by FTA to begin engineering phase. https://www.startribune.com/east-metro- ... 600045987/

mullen
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby mullen » April 15th, 2021, 11:43 am

excellent!

alexschief
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby alexschief » April 15th, 2021, 2:05 pm

I was surprised that this project is still anticipated to be completed in 2024, and while I still don't totally believe that they'll make that, Ethan Osten told me on Twitter that they are at 60% engineering, so they should speed through that stage and be ready for construction next year.

On another topic, it's really remarkable that this project went from Medium-Low to Medium-High thanks to some structured parking. Real indictment of our transportation funding formulas.

Trademark
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Trademark » April 16th, 2021, 11:15 am

I was surprised that this project is still anticipated to be completed in 2024, and while I still don't totally believe that they'll make that, Ethan Osten told me on Twitter that they are at 60% engineering, so they should speed through that stage and be ready for construction next year.

On another topic, it's really remarkable that this project went from Medium-Low to Medium-High thanks to some structured parking. Real indictment of our transportation funding formulas.
I'm not in favor of park and rides as a whole but it does make sense why it would raise the rating. Car ownership in Woodbury, Cottage Grove and Lake Elmo is so high that a huge percentage of potential ridership would be park and riders. Still think it would have been better to go to Tamarack tho as that would have been an actual trip generator. But I don't think putting a 5 over 1 or two at the end of the line instead of a park and ride would significantly change ridership here especially short term.

Also my standard practice is to add a year to any projected completion date of a project. It's so rare when a project won't get delayed

DanPatchToget
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Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby DanPatchToget » April 16th, 2021, 11:33 am

I was surprised that this project is still anticipated to be completed in 2024, and while I still don't totally believe that they'll make that, Ethan Osten told me on Twitter that they are at 60% engineering, so they should speed through that stage and be ready for construction next year.

On another topic, it's really remarkable that this project went from Medium-Low to Medium-High thanks to some structured parking. Real indictment of our transportation funding formulas.
Also my standard practice is to add a year to any projected completion date of a project. It's so rare when a project won't get delayed
My standard is to have no expectations. That way I won't end up disappointed like I was with the Green Line Extension, Blue Line Extension, and Orange Line that had projected opening dates of 2015, 2018, and 2019 respectively.

Trademark
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 149
Joined: March 31st, 2019, 11:22 am

Re: Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Postby Trademark » April 16th, 2021, 11:39 am

I was surprised that this project is still anticipated to be completed in 2024, and while I still don't totally believe that they'll make that, Ethan Osten told me on Twitter that they are at 60% engineering, so they should speed through that stage and be ready for construction next year.

On another topic, it's really remarkable that this project went from Medium-Low to Medium-High thanks to some structured parking. Real indictment of our transportation funding formulas.
Also my standard practice is to add a year to any projected completion date of a project. It's so rare when a project won't get delayed
My standard is to have no expectations. That way I won't end up disappointed like I was with the Green Line Extension, Blue Line Extension, and Orange Line that had projected opening dates of 2015, 2018, and 2019 respectively.
That's true. I meant adding a year from start if construction. Before construction we have no clue


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