Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
tmart
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby tmart » September 14th, 2021, 10:48 am

At North Memorial, Option #2 is superior because station egress through an un-upgraded parking structure should be avoided at all costs. I guess if the pathway through the parking structure were made into a pleasant hallway like the recent MOA redesign, that would be acceptable. But because the access is envisioned as going straight through the middle of the structure that doesn't seem feasible.
Option 2 also seems to have better potential pedestrian connections to Lowry and the Parkway, and maybe bus transfers as well.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby SurlyLHT » September 14th, 2021, 12:25 pm

1) I run up and down Victory Memorial Parkway almost everyday past here. I don't like the third bridge over the parkway. They're replacing the other three currently. It's becoming a concrete jungle on a parkway which is one of the nicest things North has.

2) I also don't like how the station only serves North Memorial. This is the intersection of 3 roads, two of them major, the stop should serve those in Mpls as well. It's not easy to get from Mpls to North Memorial given the interchange for 81. This should come with some improvements to make the hospital and station accessible to Northsiders.

3) There should be a connection to the other side of 81. If you live over there how do you get to the station? Play Frogger?

twincitizen
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby twincitizen » September 15th, 2021, 8:16 am

Here's this morning's committee presentation:
https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/68cf54f ... ation.aspx

Looks like the line will be elevated at North Memorial Hospital.

Considerations to build at diamond at Bottineau and Bass Lake Road. Bottineau would be elevated, but the train would not be.

Broadway to Lyndale and Lowry to Washington are the remaining Minneapolis route options. So we likely won't get a Broadway and North Loop route.
I listened to the meeting and it sounds like they are still reviewing the different route options despite the maps that don't show them.
Agreed, I don't think anything has been eliminated from consideration (at least not publicly). I think that slide is just referring to the options generally as "Broadway and Lowry", which is consistent with how they've described them in earlier presentation materials, lumping together the various sub-options closer to Target Field Station.

Trademark
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Trademark » September 15th, 2021, 12:30 pm

1) I run up and down Victory Memorial Parkway almost everyday past here. I don't like the third bridge over the parkway. They're replacing the other three currently. It's becoming a concrete jungle on a parkway which is one of the nicest things North has.

2) I also don't like how the station only serves North Memorial. This is the intersection of 3 roads, two of them major, the stop should serve those in Mpls as well. It's not easy to get from Mpls to North Memorial given the interchange for 81. This should come with some improvements to make the hospital and station accessible to Northsiders.

3) There should be a connection to the other side of 81. If you live over there how do you get to the station? Play Frogger?
If Lowry and Theo Wirth is built with some raised crosswalks it can allow people to get around 81 that way

tmart
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby tmart » September 15th, 2021, 4:19 pm

1) I run up and down Victory Memorial Parkway almost everyday past here. I don't like the third bridge over the parkway. They're replacing the other three currently. It's becoming a concrete jungle on a parkway which is one of the nicest things North has.

2) I also don't like how the station only serves North Memorial. This is the intersection of 3 roads, two of them major, the stop should serve those in Mpls as well. It's not easy to get from Mpls to North Memorial given the interchange for 81. This should come with some improvements to make the hospital and station accessible to Northsiders.

3) There should be a connection to the other side of 81. If you live over there how do you get to the station? Play Frogger?
If Lowry and Theo Wirth is built with some raised crosswalks it can allow people to get around 81 that way
I'm not sure what the value of having this intersection grade-separated even is, given that the highway turns into a low-speed, low-capacity city street with frequent intersections once it passes Lowry. It's disappointing that there aren't any configurations shown thus far that would ditch the overpass for something more pedestrian-friendly with better access to a potential station, the parkway, and the hospital.

Tcmetro
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Tcmetro » September 15th, 2021, 8:56 pm

Unfortunately the last time I was in town I noticed that they've progressed quite well on reconstruction of the interchange, so it's probably not going anywhere.

Trademark
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Trademark » September 16th, 2021, 12:20 am

1) I run up and down Victory Memorial Parkway almost everyday past here. I don't like the third bridge over the parkway. They're replacing the other three currently. It's becoming a concrete jungle on a parkway which is one of the nicest things North has.

2) I also don't like how the station only serves North Memorial. This is the intersection of 3 roads, two of them major, the stop should serve those in Mpls as well. It's not easy to get from Mpls to North Memorial given the interchange for 81. This should come with some improvements to make the hospital and station accessible to Northsiders.

3) There should be a connection to the other side of 81. If you live over there how do you get to the station? Play Frogger?
If Lowry and Theo Wirth is built with some raised crosswalks it can allow people to get around 81 that way
I'm not sure what the value of having this intersection grade-separated even is, given that the highway turns into a low-speed, low-capacity city street with frequent intersections once it passes Lowry. It's disappointing that there aren't any configurations shown thus far that would ditch the overpass for something more pedestrian-friendly with better access to a potential station, the parkway, and the hospital.
It bypasses a busy street around a parkway and great bike trail.

Mdcastle
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Mdcastle » September 16th, 2021, 9:55 am

^^^ If the bridges weren't there we'd be complaining about what a hostile experience it was to cross Bottineau (and soon the light rail tracks) on foot or bicycle. See also the Hiawatha tunnel.

Trademark
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Trademark » September 16th, 2021, 3:42 pm

^^^ If the bridges weren't there we'd be complaining about what a hostile experience it was to cross Bottineau (and soon the light rail tracks) on foot or bicycle. See also the Hiawatha tunnel.
Exactly! If we talk about pedestrian and bicyclist saftey. Being grade seperated from the vast majority of traffic in what would be a chaotic and dangerous 6 way intersection is the way to go.

If we are advocating for the light rail to be elevated they Broadway. Why is there a concern about an additional bridge that allows it to continue to be elevated as well as shortening the walk distance to by far the most important destination at this station?

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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby DanPatchToget » September 16th, 2021, 3:50 pm

If possible I wouldn't object to the Blue Line doing a short jog on Broadway through downtown Robbinsdale under the condition they close the street to vehicle traffic at least between 40th and 42nd. I say this mainly because I tried biking through there today and it was far from pleasant and enjoyable.

Trademark
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Trademark » September 16th, 2021, 4:53 pm

If possible I wouldn't object to the Blue Line doing a short jog on Broadway through downtown Robbinsdale under the condition they close the street to vehicle traffic at least between 40th and 42nd. I say this mainly because I tried biking through there today and it was far from pleasant and enjoyable.
I think this would be amazing and a much better option then 81 if we could get it. But I highly doubt that Robbinsdale would go for closing down vehicle traffic on West Broadway

SurlyLHT
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby SurlyLHT » September 17th, 2021, 8:03 am

In all honestly I only see one or two or no people at the current bus stop here. I'm betting most people get there via 81 and highway 100 and that if the LRT is competitive time wise folks will just keep driving.

I don't live far away and this side of Mpls and Robbinsdale GV, etc is served well by 100. Even if you're coming from the East it is quicker to take 394, 94, or 55 to 100 and exit and backtrack east because of how slow going and frankly dangerous it is to drive on W. Broadway, or because of the slow going on other neighborhood streets. The LRT is likely to face the same constraints.

I don't see how this project will change all of this. Yeah, some additional patients and workers will come from NoMi, but I would not bet that this Hospital is going to see a large surge in transit riders. Many will simply drive because it quicker, safer and what they have been doing.

This also likely to be a factor along much the route, if it's an alternative to 81, why would anyone ride if it is quicker to just drive down 81? Especially if crime keeps increasing along 81. The 63rd, 81 area has seen a huge increase in crime. A week ago a school was shot up in a gun fight, there have been multiple shootings in the Brooklyn's near 81 including an officer shot. Meanwhile in Minneapolis W. Broadway is the border between the High and Lows gangs and currently a battleground with regular homicides at Winner Station, Merwyns and Amstar Stations. The LRT will likely be shut down regularly for homicide investigations. I live in the area, I've seen the Police shut down this road and place the bright yellow number placards marking the casings.

Tcmetro
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby Tcmetro » September 17th, 2021, 9:03 am

It wouldn't make much sense to go past N Memorial Hospital without stopping if it's on the way.

Crime and shootings are going to be around, trains or no trains. It's just a fact of life. Green and Blue lines (and pretty much every other US city) have service disruptions stemming from criminal activity already, so it's not like it will be anything new.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby DanPatchToget » September 17th, 2021, 9:19 am

Would be interesting to see how much transit use increased to the Mall of America and MSP Airport after the Blue Line opened. I expect transit use to North Memorial would increase with the Blue Line Extension, but by how much is an unknown.

As for crime, like Tcmetro said, a train isn't going to make a difference. That's a whole different issue outside of transportation.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby SurlyLHT » September 17th, 2021, 10:20 am

Would be interesting to see how much transit use increased to the Mall of America and MSP Airport after the Blue Line opened. I expect transit use to North Memorial would increase with the Blue Line Extension, but by how much is an unknown.

As for crime, like Tcmetro said, a train isn't going to make a difference. That's a whole different issue outside of transportation.
I'm not saying the LRT will change crime, I'm saying that it will affect ridership and put LRT at a competitive disadvantage against vehicular travel on 81 and nearby roads.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby DanPatchToget » September 17th, 2021, 11:39 am

Crime happens on roads all the time and people don't seem to bat an eye over that. There's a reason it's called road rage and drive-by shootings. That's not to say we don't need to improve safety on light rail, but let's not pretend driving is a 100% safe and pleasant experience.

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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby MNdible » September 17th, 2021, 12:02 pm

From people who ride more regularly than me, the issue isn't actual crime. It's bad, inconsiderate behavior that makes riding transit an unpleasant experience that has choice riders choosing otherwise.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Postby SurlyLHT » September 17th, 2021, 12:42 pm

I live near the C Line and I can tell you that part of the reason ridership is down is crime. There have been shootings at both of the intersection we have stations. If you don't believe me go see the leftover police line tap floating in the breeze with the BRT station feet away. I've personally ridden it less since someone was shot on killed on one of the C Line buses.


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