Bicycle Infrastructure

[Minneapolisite]

^^^It's not that bad, at least there are a good number of level-headed replies in support. Seriously though, the bike corrals are way overdue and we need those 25 ASAP. I don't think I can overstate how important it is to guarantee plentiful (bike) parking in several areas to match and induce demand. It's the same with cars; if they didn't offer parking spaces everywhere then people wouldn't default so readily to hopping in the car and driving to their destination, because without that certainty that you know you'll find a spot, you're just not going be to as likely to drive. As far as the negative comments, well, I guess there's only so many times you can go to TGIF, Chili's, and Applebee's before having nothing else to do but troll online.

[FISHMANPET]

While the 35W tunnel was under construction I rode around and took some pictures, and never posted them, but one of my complaints that the tunnel just kind of dumped you into this random point in the Mill district. I rode it last Friday and it looks like they've striped bike lanes at the street on the west side of the tunnel, so I'm much less anti-this, though I still think there were better places to spend this money. This is hailed as a link between the U and Downtown, but it's really only a link between the northern part of the East Bank campus and downtown. If you're on the southern part of East Bank (where you would take the Washington Ave Bridge to go west rather than #9) or any part of the west bank, there's no good way to get downtown. The one bike path that you think would take you to the tunnel under 35W ends in a staircase. There's really no good way to get to this new tunnel from anywhere but the end of #9 bridge, which is actually really out of the way for large parts of the campus.

[twincitizen]

there's no good way to get downtown. The one bike path that you think would take you to the tunnel under 35W ends in a staircase.

That ****ING staircase. I think I hate it more than any other gap in Minneapolis cycling infrastructure. It's absurd that the U refuses to address it.

It's not just that you have to dismount and carry your bike down a few steps...it's that there is absolutely no continuation of trails or wayfinding signage whatsoever at the end of a MAJOR cycling network. Hundreds of riders per day are dumped into complete nothingness.

[talindsay]

I have a gif that shows how this works but the forum isn't allowing uploading and I don't have a good alternative way to put up the image so I'll describe this. At the west end of the Wash Ave bridge go LEFT instead of right. Follow the bike path to 4th, turn right. At 19th go right again. When you get to 2nd go right again. At the bottom of the hill jog slightly right and back, and you'll be staring at the new tunnel to your left, or the path to the River Road directly in front of you. No stairs. It might add two minutes to your ride, TOPS, compared to going behind Willey. I can't believe how many people obstinately go right and then complain about the stairs - I've found that knocking my head once against a brick wall is enough to tell me to stop beating my head against a brick wall. They're not going to put a ramp there.

[ProspectPete]

Yeah I got teased and took that route there yesterday and got stopped by the stairs. I was trying to make it to bridge 9. Now I know, and I won't repeat that mistake again. But why then, do they make it so tempting and juicy by striping a bright path to the left? Weird. Maybe they could put a sign up. That the bike trail leads to stairs where riders will have to dismount.

[ProspectPete]

Yeah I got teased and took that route there yesterday and got stopped by the stairs. I was trying to make it to bridge 9. Now I know, and I won't repeat that mistake again. But why then, do they make it so tempting and juicy by striping a bright path to the left? Weird. Maybe they could put a sign up. That the bike trail leads to stairs where riders will have to dismount.

[exiled_antipodean]

I don't get the obsession with the stairs as the problem between the West Bank and the tunnel. There is then a parking lot, and then the choice of going
a) uphill and then downhill round the field
b) downhill on a cobbled road, then turn left at an intersection with poor sight lines, then uphill
c) Go across a field, through a sometimes closed gate, and down a clay bank.

The signposting could be a lot better, that would solve this problem, not a ramp in a place where frankly it would be difficult to put one in at a safe grade.

[FISHMANPET]

Everything else is incredibly inconvenient, but you can still bike it if you know what you're doing (I have many times) but there's just nothing you can do about the stair case. The whole thing is just a clusterfuck, but the stair case is the only brick wall of the bunch, the rest can be dealt with.

[orangevening]

Its not a obsession, just makes intuitive sense because DT is to the right and there are freaking bike lanes painted right to those stairs. Plus you have thousands of inexperienced bikers on campus who probably never rode a bike in a big city before (I was one of them)

One big problem with bluff street. They put a big bump in (with no sign or warning) from the north(?) coming from 19th. I know the point is to keep cars out, but ouch!!

[twincitizen]

Is that the right link? Or the post was removed?

Anyways, here's an interesting article I found that might spark some conversation: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/07/ ... ng/374390/

If it gets out of hand, we can probably create a separate thread, since this is supposed to be about bicycle infrastructure/improvements

[ECtransplant]

People who "just want a car" should be living in the suburbs not the central city

[David Greene]

People who "just want a car" should be living in the suburbs not the central city

You completely, completely missed the point.

Bike advocates have a lot of work to do if this is their general attitude.

[ECtransplant]

Working to try and change the minds of people whose minds are already made up is a waste of time. Let's worry about making it easy enough for people who want to bike but can't because of lack of infrastructure before we worry about converting the people who worship cars as cultural/status icons.

[David Greene]

Working to try and change the minds of people whose minds are already made up is a waste of time. Let's worry about making it easy enough for people who want to bike but can't because of lack of infrastructure before we worry about converting the people who worship cars as cultural/status icons.

So let's kick those people out of the city so we don't have to deal with them, right?

[MNdible]

So let's kick those people out of the city so we don't have to deal with them, right?

It's taken you a few years, David, but I think you're finally starting to get the hang of things on UrbanMSP.

[FISHMANPET]

I wonder how much of the desire for the poor to own cars is as a status symbol (at least one person they surveyed, "just wanted a car" so at least some see it purely as a status symbol, even if it's not the easiest/cheapest/fastest/"best" mode of transportation for them. And I don't mean that in the "I, a well educated middle class white man knows better how other people should live their lives," but a car isn't always going to be the "best" choice, especially in a city like DC.

So the solution is to turn the bike into a status symbol, moreso than the car, and then people won't buy cars "just because" so much.

[David Greene]

So let's kick those people out of the city so we don't have to deal with them, right?

It's taken you a few years, David, but I think you're finally starting to get the hang of things on UrbanMSP.

Just quoting pretty much what was said. "People who 'just want a car' should be living in the suburbs not the central city."

[David Greene]

So the solution is to turn the bike into a status symbol, moreso than the car, and then people won't buy cars "just because" so much.

Absolutely. This is the kind of helpful, interesting conversation we need to have. The Orange NiceRide effort is getting noticed in North.

https://www.niceridemn.org/news/2014/07 ... _minnesota

[ECtransplant]

Working to try and change the minds of people whose minds are already made up is a waste of time. Let's worry about making it easy enough for people who want to bike but can't because of lack of infrastructure before we worry about converting the people who worship cars as cultural/status icons.

So let's kick those people out of the city so we don't have to deal with them, right?

Saying people who insist on driving everywhere would be better off somewhere with the infrastructure and built environment for that lifestyle is no different than saying people who want to keep horses in the backyard should move to the sticks. And remember the context here is a major east coast city, where this should ring even more true than Minneapolis.

[David Greene]

Working to try and change the minds of people whose minds are already made up is a waste of time. Let's worry about making it easy enough for people who want to bike but can't because of lack of infrastructure before we worry about converting the people who worship cars as cultural/status icons.

So let's kick those people out of the city so we don't have to deal with them, right?

Saying people who insist on driving everywhere would be better off somewhere with the infrastructure and built environment for that lifestyle is no different than saying people who want to keep horses in the backyard should move to the sticks. And remember the context here is a major east coast city, where this should ring even more true than Minneapolis.

Ok, perhaps I misinterpreted your statement. It came off as very harsh to me, like you were writing off anyone who doesn't immediately embrace biking.

As for changing opinion, the Northside facebook pages have had several posts on the Orange NiceRide efforts. Sure, there are some boosters there but there are definitely apathetic (to bikes) people that are curious. It's not a wasted effort to promote bikes in poor areas of the city. Saying that it is is once again dismissing the worth of poor people.