Bicycle Infrastructure

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Anondson
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Anondson » May 7th, 2014, 10:21 pm

Reminder, this happens Thursday the 8th. I attended the open house in Minnetonka, it was very lightly attended IMO. If you want to voice for cycling accommodations on county routes, or are aware of gaps in the network, or think certain plans needed a higher priority, this is a good time for it.
Hennepin county is having two open houses to present the county bike plan. May 7th at Minnetonka Community Center (City Hall) and May 8th at Minneapolis Central Library.

http://www.hennepin.us/bikeplan

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woofner
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby woofner » May 8th, 2014, 9:20 am

don't get defensive... but there are three reasons not to wear a helmet: laziness, lack of availability, and vanity.
Don't get defensive, but the only reasons to post on message boards are stupidity, lack of imagination, and selfishness. Hey, I'm just trying to see if there are any other reasons by insulting any potential respondents.
woofner wrote:helmet advocates imagine an inverse in which there are is an all-powerful anti-helmet lobby about to initiate a citywide helmet sweep and hold a series of helmet burnings.
Who is saying that?
In response to the same blog post post that started this helmet conversation here, I've seen lots of comments that respond to his argument as though he were saying that no one should wear helmets. That's the downside of any response to the normative "always wear a helmet" line, it kicks up a conversation about helmets (like this one) that tends to foster a perception that cycling is dangerous.
Helmets provide the most value when you are moving more than 10-15 miles per hour.


I'm pretty sure that utility cycling maxes out at 15, averages maybe 10, and rarely exceeds 15. It's actually not easy to go that fast when loaded down with groceries, laptop, etc. But regardless, next to motor vehicle travel the next greatest cause of head injuries is falling, typically from a stand or a walk.
"Who rescued whom!"

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby PhilmerPhil » May 8th, 2014, 11:42 am

I swear somebody posted something on the lines of "Why do people wear spandex? Seems overkill." (mdcastleman?)

Anyways, the post is gone I guess, but I wanted to respond with this video:



This video is funny, but it's also very real. Everyday transportation biking has a huge image problem in America. Too many people treat cycling the way this couple does, or maybe like the "BICYCLE RIGHTS" guy, and I feel that it turns off huge segments of the population.

I never dress up for biking. I just wear what I'm gonna wear at my destination. Heck, I biked to my wedding in my suit! Easy!

Mdcastle
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Mdcastle » May 8th, 2014, 11:53 am

Yes, I made a statement I about some of the snobbishness I perceive of certain elements the bicycle culture that I thought better of, so I deleted the entire post, but in the same post I commented that wearing spandex, and I realize there's legit reasons for it, might be another thing that gives the perception that bicycling isn't something you can just hop on a bicycle and do.

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby PhilmerPhil » May 8th, 2014, 12:46 pm

I've been volunteering at commuter pit stops this week for Minneapolis Bike Week, and it's surprising how many people with <5 mile bike commutes feel the need to gear up in their lycra and high viz.

talindsay
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby talindsay » May 8th, 2014, 12:50 pm

I've been volunteering at commuter pit stops this week for Minneapolis Bike Week, and it's surprising how many people with <5 mile bike commutes feel the need to gear up in their lycra and high viz.
Haha that's awesome.

twincitizen
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby twincitizen » May 8th, 2014, 12:54 pm

5 miles (one-way) is about the distance at which I feel the need (quite literally) for padded shorts. For a fast-paced, semi-sweaty work commute, that is. If it was just a leisurely slow-paced ride around the lakes, then no. I had biked all the way around Calhoun when I ran into you yesterday, no special gear.

Honestly though, I think some of the gear-wearing may be because people have already purchased all that stuff and feel the need to "get their money's worth". That seems like a pretty normal human reaction to having spent $100 on a high-viz jacket, does it not?

MNdible
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » May 8th, 2014, 1:25 pm

Well, also, if you're biking in to work and are going to be a hot sweaty mess and need to shower and change clothes anyway, why not wear the gear?

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby PhilmerPhil » May 8th, 2014, 1:45 pm

Therein lies the problem. Unless it's over 85 degrees and humid, why should you be a hot and sweaty mess if you're biking 5 miles? I commute about 4.5 miles to my job from Stevens Square to near 38th & Hiawatha. I could get there in 20 minutes if I wanted to, but I don't want to get to work and have to change. I ride slowly and leisurely. (Which is also part of why I don't wear a helmet. I almost never go faster than 12MPH on my bike.) As Gil Penalosa said, biking is just a faster version of walking.

If we treat bike commuting as a hot and sweaty sport that you gear up for, we're never gonna get past a 5% rate of cycling.

talindsay
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby talindsay » May 8th, 2014, 1:54 pm

As Gil Penalosa said, biking is just a faster version of walking.
And I surmise that therein lies the reason why we all argue about this: cycling can be a faster version of walking, or it can be a faster version of running. The two paradigms are as different as walking and running, except they look basically the same and we lump them together. The cycling version of running necessarily involves gear and helmets, while the cycling version of walking does not. Until you posted that statement I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but that's the difference between my own road bike experience and my nice ride experience. I tried to commute on my road bike a few times and no matter what I couldn't get myself to be leisurely - I'd end up at work sweaty and a mess. Commuting on Nice Ride is necessarily leisurely because you can't get those things to go fast no matter what.

So obviously there aren't rules and people can do whatever they want - heck, people speed-walk and they jog - but in the broadest sense, bicycling is likely to be *either* a faster version of walking *or* a faster version of running. The two make different assumptions and behave very differently.

twincitizen
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby twincitizen » May 8th, 2014, 2:02 pm

I'm honestly curious to see which takes me longer: Biking 15 MPH to work and needing 10-15 minutes to cool down & change clothes, or just bike to work (a lot) slower and not need the extra time because I could go straight to my desk. 5.5 miles is just a wee bit too far for me to cycle to work regularly.

I swear, if my work commute were 3.5 miles or less, I would bike nearly every single day, in regular clothes, 5-6 months/year. That statement right there is a huge argument against job sprawl to the 2nd & 3rd-ring suburbs (for large employers anyways, obviously smaller service, office, medical, retail, etc need to be distributed where people live).

Viktor Vaughn
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Viktor Vaughn » May 8th, 2014, 2:33 pm

I have a 4 mile bike commute and if I swear if I pedal like crazy and get all sweaty I get to work in 16 minutes instead of 18.

I still much prefer to leave my dress clothes and shoes at work. Biking in dress pants makes me grumpy.

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby LakeCharles » May 8th, 2014, 2:49 pm

I have a 6 mile bike commute, so the distance makes going faster a little more of a time saver. But the main reason I like to go fast is not that I save 10 minutes on my commute each way, it's that I save the 40 minutes that I would be working out. This way my commute doubles as my workout. I was talking to a coworker, and he said, "I'm envious of you biking, but I just can't justify the extra 20 minutes it would take to commute," while he was running on the treadmill for 45 minutes.

grant1simons2
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby grant1simons2 » May 8th, 2014, 3:27 pm

This is why some work places in Minneapolis are getting showers now. To accommodate the bike commuters

LakeCharles
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby LakeCharles » May 9th, 2014, 9:20 am

Map your routes, destinations, uncomfortable segments and problem spots, and routes you wish existed. Pretty fun tool.

http://wikimapping.com/wikimap/MnDOTBikePlan.html

xandrex
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby xandrex » May 9th, 2014, 7:41 pm

Therein lies the problem. Unless it's over 85 degrees and humid, why should you be a hot and sweaty mess if you're biking 5 miles?
Because my father's genes he passed on to me guarantee I'd sweat biking to a downtown job (I'm in Marcy Holmes near Marcy Open), even if it was 65 and breezy.

No way would I ever bike to work in dress clothes. And if I need to change anyway, why not pick up the pace just a little bit and get there a few minutes earlier? ;)

mulad
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mulad » May 9th, 2014, 8:04 pm

Yeah my dad and I can both end up sweating buckets. My last job was only 2.5 miles from my apartment, and when I'd bike, I'd need quite a while to cool down -- not quite to the point of needing a shower, but not too far away from it either. I normally used the UMN transitway flyover near the fairgrounds, which made for quite the "hill", though.

My current job is 4.5 miles from home. It actually might not be so bad getting into work, since the last bit is all downhill (heading to Lowertown). Well, except the pavement on Jackson Street and other possible routes is in horrible condition, and I risk blowing a tire or making some sort of maneuver/fall that would land me in the path of a truck...

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby PhilmerPhil » May 9th, 2014, 8:13 pm

I'm not trying to be smart alecky or anything, and maybe the two of you are exceptions, but how do the thousands of Dutch and Danes manage to bike daily in business attire? Lower hygiene standards in Europe? Lower speeds on less stressful infrastructure? Being accustomed and fit enough from daily riding that they don't sweat as much? I'd imagine it's a combination of all of the above.

I'm actually quite curious because I hear this a lot from people that question riding to work because they are genetically sweaty. I know Americans aren't just inherently more sweaty.

xandrex
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby xandrex » May 9th, 2014, 8:31 pm

I'm sure it's a combination of what you mention. Hygiene standards liking play a certain role. When I was in Europe for a while, people were certainly more willing to smell. I never went to France, but I had a friend who had a...erm, lover?...so she visited often and would talk about how sweaty they smelled.

I'm sure for many Americans that it's partially because of being overweight and under exercised. But for me it's definitely genetic. I bike frequently and am at the gym 3-5 times a week...it's just a curse (thankfully, I won the lottery for birth location...I would have died in Florida). :mrgreen:

exiled_antipodean
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby exiled_antipodean » May 9th, 2014, 9:46 pm

My anecdatal experience of summers in European countries with a strong commuter cycling culture is that they are somewhat cooler and less humid than Minnesota.

if I had choose one word to describe here it would be stagnant. And things only get worse in other parts of the country.


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