Bicycle Infrastructure

[grant1simons2]

Hopefully I have some bit of power with email I sent the urban planner, they either really like to hear from people who are going to be studying in their field or they just think we're all ambitious idiots

[froggie]

Got this in my E-mail this afternoon. Looks like the city is going to rebuild the West River Pkwy paths from Plymouth to Franklin, starting tomorrow.

About time...expecially near the Stone Arch and up to the Cedar Lake Trail connection, the bike path was in pretty bad shape. Good to see they're going to get some TLC. There's also a page that shows preliminary plans and a news release of some design changes (for example, they're forgoing separate pedestrian sidewalks behind the Guthrie and from Bohemian Flats to 4th St due to costs). From the preliminary plans, looks like some sharp corners will be smoothed out, the bike path will be 10ft wide (IIRC, most of the current path is 8ft), and combined-trail (bike and ped) segments will be 12ft wide.

[bubzki2]

It's about darn time. This trail was so bumpy my bike bell sounded like a sleigh bell most of the time.

[twincitizen]

Idea: asphalt overlay on the concrete "sidewalk" part of the Hiawatha trail (Lake to 46th).

The Hiawatha "trail" sucks, because it is a concrete sidewalk with short, uneven panels. One ride is enough to destroy at least your wrists, and probably a rim too. It's basically unrideable. Trails should be asphalt anyways. Sure, this is technically the "sidewalk" along Hiawatha Ave, like any other city sidewalk, but it probably sees more traffic from bikes than pedestrians (aside from short distance ped trips to and from LRT stations).

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.938734, ... 4Dy8pQ!2e0

Discuss. Problems/challenges?

Isn't it kind of weird that this is even designated as a trail in the first place?

[MNdible]

One issue could be delamination -- the asphalt may not stick long term to the concrete.

[FISHMANPET]

Yeah, I was on it last week and it was pretty rough. The Hiawatha trail also sucks around Lake St because signage is basically non existing, I'd rather cross Hiawatha at grade south of Lake St than cross the west side of Lake under the LRT tracks, at grade.

[PhilmerPhil]

Another major annoyance on the Hiawatha Trail is all of the bumpy and non-straight line crossings. Weaving around and up and down bumpy crossings every few blocks is a huge turn off for me. The sad part is that many of these crossings were just rebuilt and still make biking difficult.

I'm hoping the county plans intersections along the rebuilt Washington Ave protected bike lanes with a smooth crossings in mind. Protected intersections would be amazing as well.

[PhilmerPhil]

Also, how has this bump not been smoothed out yet?! https://www.google.com/maps/@44.951882, ... vlwIog!2e0
It's a guaranteed flat tire if you're not expecting it. And if you do expect it, having to slow down to 2MPH when you're trying to make the light that'll take a few minutes to turn green again is no fun.

[FISHMANPET]

When I had occasion to use the trail, I was going to visit a friend that lives in S Mpls, somewhere around 28th Ave and 56th St. Anyway, I stumbled upon 30th Ave which as far as I can tell is in no way a designated bike route, but its just quiet residential all the way from when it intersects the Hiawatha trail at 38th St to 56th St or so. Even the cross streets weren't too bad. A++ highly recommend riding down side residential streets. I even came across a cat just hanging out on the street on my ride.

[VAStationDude]

I use 30th Ave or Nokomis Ave between my home south of 50th along Hiawatha and the green way/Uptown.

[xandrex]

On that note the city is a lot more serious about their bicycling initiatives due to the recognition that they get for it, a lot of the objectives in the plan are already coming out.

Pardon me if I don't jump for joy. White privilege all over again.

I'm not going to disagree on white privilege (because obviously it's real), but isn't bicycle infrastructure a whole hell of a lot easier than the Bassett master plan? Bicycle infrastructure is mostly paint on asphalt. The master plan is a call for a bunch of development, which has many outside factors. Plus, bike infrastructure--when done right--can absolutely be an investment in equity. Biking is cheaper than driving and can be quicker than transit, especially during rush hour and other busy periods.

[David Greene]

On that note the city is a lot more serious about their bicycling initiatives due to the recognition that they get for it, a lot of the objectives in the plan are already coming out.

Pardon me if I don't jump for joy. White privilege all over again.

I'm not going to disagree on white privilege (because obviously it's real), but isn't bicycle infrastructure a whole hell of a lot easier than the Bassett master plan? Bicycle infrastructure is mostly paint on asphalt. The master plan is a call for a bunch of development, which has many outside factors. Plus, bike infrastructure--when done right--can absolutely be an investment in equity. Biking is cheaper than driving and can be quicker than transit, especially during rush hour and other busy periods.

I'm not against biking. Not at all.

Yes, the BCV master plan is complicated, but the city has actually *actively worked against it!* They are right now studying how to reinvest in the impound lot to permanently keep it right in the middle of the proposed master plan, even though the city's own comprehensive plan calls for the impound lot to move so that BCV can happen. At the same time the city is looking at what it would get by selling part of Linden Yards East to the county to use for a diesel train maintenance and layover facility (for NLX, HSR, etc.). Both of these plans would seriously hamper implementation of the BCV plan and in the case of the impound lot, kill almost all of it. These are things the city *entirely* controls yet they are making moves that looks like they're going to once again throw those neighborhoods under the bus.

Meanwhile, "the city is a lot more serious about their bicycling initiatives." What's the difference? Who directly benefits most from these two plans?

That's what I'm upset about.

[froggie]

One issue could be delamination -- the asphalt may not stick long term to the concrete.

Asphalt will stick to concrete if the concrete is sufficiently "roughed up" first. This is why many DOTs will diamond-grind concrete before they lay an asphalt overlay on top of it.

[xandrex]

I'm not against biking. Not at all.

Yes, the BCV master plan is complicated, but the city has actually *actively worked against it!* They are right now studying how to reinvest in the impound lot to permanently keep it right in the middle of the proposed master plan, even though the city's own comprehensive plan calls for the impound lot to move so that BCV can happen. At the same time the city is looking at what it would get by selling part of Linden Yards East to the county to use for a diesel train maintenance and layover facility (for NLX, HSR, etc.). Both of these plans would seriously hamper implementation of the BCV plan and in the case of the impound lot, kill almost all of it. These are things the city *entirely* controls yet they are making moves that looks like they're going to once again throw those neighborhoods under the bus.

Meanwhile, "the city is a lot more serious about their bicycling initiatives." What's the difference? Who directly benefits most from these two plans?

That's what I'm upset about.

I don't disagree with you and think the city should obviously not be blocking the way for a plan that they approved.

That said, I just wanted to point out that bicycle infrastructure is something far more in the city's control than building out a major area on a brownfield site. And that bicycle infrastructure isn't an example of white privilege except when non-white areas of the city are starved on bicycle infrastructure that they need while predominantly white areas benefit (certainly something that could be argued is indeed happening). But as a general concept, biking can be an incredibly inexpensive investment in equity by getting people to mix on the streets, significantly reduce congestion that most impacts poor neighborhoods, and bring down the cost of transportation.

[Anondson]

Maybe this could go in a generic "Seattle" thread over in Cities of the World but this protected bike lane article has good lessons and examples how to make protected lanes.

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entr ... bike-lanes

Particularly interesting that adding the lanes reduced the streetcar project because the lane allowed keeping underground utilities from having to be relocated!

[Nathan]

Particularly interesting that adding the lanes reduced the streetcar project because the lane allowed keeping underground utilities from having to be relocated!

That's awesome! We should do this with SO many streets. I really like the barriers.

[grant1simons2]

First off. Hennepin.

[MSPtoMKE]

I just checked out the progress of the First Hill streetcar (not running yet) and the Cycle Track on Broadway this past Tuesday while I was in Seattle. It is impressive and a huge improvement to the streetscape. The also created a few plazas by closing off short sections of streets that intersected Broadway at awkward angles. I do wonder how snow clearing would work here with so many bollards and barriers. I assume they would have to use smaller plowing vehicles. They probably would not be able to store excess snow in the buffer zone, either.

[MNdible]

No worries about snow storage, as we've apparently figured out a way to just make it disappear (per all of the recently approved road designs that no longer account for the existence of winter).

[FISHMANPET]

It snows basically never in Seattle, and if it does, it melts right away. Or the city just shuts down because they're not prepared for snow. But real accumulation happens so infrequently it's not a real concern for them.