Bicycle Infrastructure

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Multimodal
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Multimodal » April 20th, 2020, 9:44 am

The tree removals are for parking bays, not the bike lanes. Cut the widening and you can save the trees.
Good point. This was approved by the SLP City Council. But change is afoot. From the City of SLP:
Southeast bikeway improvements

Dear St. Louis Park community member,

On March 2, 2020, the St. Louis Park City Council approved the preliminary layout for the southeast area bikeway. On April 6, the city council received a citizen petition requesting a modification of the approved project layout. The request is to eliminate the parking bays on Wooddale Avenue between 44th Street and Morningside Road

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Oreos&Milk » April 27th, 2020, 12:23 pm

Holy freaking cow!! :o

who in the world is designing this crap? I am one of the biggest pro-biking person there is and I love the idea of a grade seperation however THIS is insanely too long!!!

Image


Should design it to get to the POINT! have the approaches be in the direction to crossing so they don't have all this round about crap! Something more like this.

Image


Or better yet! have duel ramps on one side, if there is multiple approach paths. I remember seeing that crossing somewhere around the metro crossing a freeway. After crossing the freeway the ramp down you go either direction back down to the trail. Wish I remembered where it was, but it was south west metro area ish. It's crap like this that prevent biking from being a viable mobility option beyond the outer core. This really is the best solution they could come up with? Making people bike 6-8 blocks to go 1 block. :lol: I bet 9 out of 10 times you start taking the bridge over the train will have been long gone by the time you get to the other side!

EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » April 27th, 2020, 3:18 pm

Where is this?

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » April 27th, 2020, 4:58 pm

Making bridges extra long just incentives people to not use them and go the shorter perhaps more dangerous route. All you have to do is hang out at Hiawatha beneath the Sabo Bridge to see this. At least when I lived in the area so many cyclists hit the pedestrian button and stopped traffic for 40 seconds while they crossed at grade instead of via the bridge because even if you have to wait for the light it's quicker to not take the bridge.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby DanPatchToget » April 27th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Where is this?
Looks like St. Louis Park crossing over the BNSF tracks to connect Edgewood Avenue with the North Cedar Lake Trail. This particular segment has fencing along the south side of the tracks so the only way to get across is go up to the north-south Canadian Pacific rail line or go to Louisiana Avenue. You would have to go pretty far if you want to cross at-grade.

I do agree the bridge design is a bit ridiculous but it will be nice to finally have a legit north-south crossing.

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Anondson
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Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Anondson » April 27th, 2020, 5:34 pm

This bridge is going to link Dakota Ave (Peter Hobart Elementary School to the south) to Edgewood (industrial park to the north) in St. Louis Park creating a new much needed north/south connection in the city. Even with the zig zagging, it does create a new connection to neighborhoods north of the railroad to the elementary school who could only get to school via bus.

If I recall, the rail here is a bit elevated anyway, so the north/south connection needs to rise up extra high to clear the elevated rail.

Going under with a tunnel would obviously disrupt the regular rail traffic. Pretty disappointing a cleaner link wasn’t possible.

I seem to recall there was a design where the ramp to the south was going to descend along the outfield of that baseball field, but I believe it was not liked by the neighborhood because it would create a visual earth wall between the green space of the school and the ball field.

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Anondson
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Anondson » April 27th, 2020, 5:51 pm

Kinda about here.
46FD7B70-0DE8-460F-8B55-0438DBC87674.jpeg
For those unfamiliar with the locale, West End is just out of frame to the upper right. That is Louisiana Ave on the west of the image.
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fehler
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby fehler » April 28th, 2020, 8:55 am

Even if the design is weird, they are bridging a park/trail to an industrial area with one egress point? I guess the space is limited, but try to serve the residents by connecting at Hampshire Ave. And why is there no connection from the Louisiana Ave bridge to the Cedar Lake Trail (that I can see)?

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Anondson
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Anondson » April 28th, 2020, 9:41 am

From my recollection they would need to have acquired properties to link to Hampshire. The Edgewood “industrial” district has been slowly turning over businesses to be less industrial. I heard a brewpub or distillery was opening up at the end of Florida, for instance. The little industrial parks around St. Louis Park have been magnets for fitness gyms and brew pubs lately and linking Edgewood to the North Cedar Lake Trail I predict would accelerate that transition in Edgewood.

If anything the city has wanted to bring a bike route north/south connection closer to West End for a long long time. I imagine running through Edgewood is a compromise to create a school connection to Elliot (north of Cedar Lake Road), and be close to West End.

I would still prefer another north/south connection closer to Lifetime Fitness. Not because of Lifetime, but because it is as close to West End as one could get.

MNdible
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » April 28th, 2020, 9:54 am

Again, this is a case where an at-grade rail crossing would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » April 28th, 2020, 10:47 am

It kinda bothers me that all the money is being spent on this, when we have places like Olson Memorial through Mpls where people don't have a super safe way to cross a highway that cuts across a residential area. I'm not saying build a bridge there, but it just seems like some of these suburbs are quick to construct these things, when less influential neighborhoods are left with whatever. Growing up in the suburbs it seemed like people rarely use some of these.

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Oreos&Milk » April 28th, 2020, 9:42 pm

From my recollection they would need to have acquired properties to link to Hampshire. The Edgewood “industrial” district has been slowly turning over businesses to be less industrial. I heard a brewpub or distillery was opening up at the end of Florida, for instance. The little industrial parks around St. Louis Park have been magnets for fitness gyms and brew pubs lately and linking Edgewood to the North Cedar Lake Trail I predict would accelerate that transition in Edgewood.

If anything the city has wanted to bring a bike route north/south connection closer to West End for a long long time. I imagine running through Edgewood is a compromise to create a school connection to Elliot (north of Cedar Lake Road), and be close to West End.

I would still prefer another north/south connection closer to Lifetime Fitness. Not because of Lifetime, but because it is as close to West End as one could get.
Completely agree. I’d be happy with an at grade crossing just east of that lifetime fitness. It’s already so often done illegally I thought of crossing there myself but chose to use that bridge and then use the sidewalk that is waaaay to short on the busy road. I seen they have since widened it.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby DanPatchToget » April 29th, 2020, 6:44 am

Again, this is a case where an at-grade rail crossing would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE.
BNSF wouldn't allow it, and I don't blame them. Too many possible pedestrians and bikers that will try to beat the train, and these trains go up to 50 miles per hour on that segment. This rail line was built for speed and that includes the limited at-grade crossings; in St. Louis Park the closest at-grade crossings are West Island Avenue on Nicollet Island and Crosby Road all the way in Wayzata.

MNdible
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » April 29th, 2020, 11:25 am

I know that BNSF won't allow it, but it's a silly reason to spend so much money on an overpass (not to mention the ongoing expenses to maintain it, plow snow off of it, etc.). By this logic, we should eliminate all crosswalks at highways, because that traffic is moving faster than 50 mph and is coming from both directions.

talindsay
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby talindsay » April 29th, 2020, 1:31 pm

I do wonder why they didn't consider an underpass, which could be done with far less total gradient.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby DanPatchToget » April 29th, 2020, 4:25 pm

I know that BNSF won't allow it, but it's a silly reason to spend so much money on an overpass (not to mention the ongoing expenses to maintain it, plow snow off of it, etc.). By this logic, we should eliminate all crosswalks at highways, because that traffic is moving faster than 50 mph and is coming from both directions.
Well I do think there shouldn't be any crosswalks at streets with traffic going 50 or more miles per hour; either grade-separate or lower the speed limit.

Anyways, considering how limited the crossings are in this area I don't think this is silly. Perhaps it would be better and cheaper to build a ramp at Louisiana Avenue, but I don't know if they considered that. Also the fact that it would be farther from the school and maybe the main intention of this bridge is to allow students to walk to school from the north side of the tracks.

Tcmetro
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Tcmetro » May 1st, 2020, 5:32 pm

MnDot project to repair the Stone Arch Bridge in 2022-2024.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... index.html

Multimodal
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Multimodal » May 6th, 2020, 8:49 am

I do wonder why they didn't consider an underpass, which could be done with far less total gradient.
In the Land of 10,000 Lakes, it’s usually due to water table issues.

Multimodal
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Multimodal » May 6th, 2020, 8:52 am

Again, this is a case where an at-grade rail crossing would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE.
BNSF wouldn't allow it, and I don't blame them. Too many possible pedestrians and bikers that will try to beat the train, and these trains go up to 50 miles per hour on that segment. This rail line was built for speed and that includes the limited at-grade crossings; in St. Louis Park the closest at-grade crossings are West Island Avenue on Nicollet Island and Crosby Road all the way in Wayzata.
If the train is going 50 mph, there’s little reason to try to beat it, as it will pass quickly (as opposed to a very slow-moving train).

An at-grade crossing would cost way less, would require much less effort on the part of cyclists & pedestrians, and would be way faster 95% of the time.

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Anondson
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Anondson » May 6th, 2020, 10:19 am

In the Land of 10,000 Lakes, it’s usually due to water table issues.
Likely in this case seeing the big marsh nearby.


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