Blue Line LRT

[mullen]

yes, downtown east needs to be a center platform. now that we have two lines its a major transfer point. shouldn't have to cross to the other side like this.

[FISHMANPET]

Ideally it should have three platforms like NIcollet, because thinking long term, when the stadium opens and both Blue and Green extensions are running, there will be a multitude of people crowding the platforms on either side to leave after the game, but a middle platform would certainly be helpful for normal transfer movement.

[mattaudio]

I wish there was another vehicular entrance into Gaviidae II so this stretch of 5th could be closed to traffic.

[mulad]

Yeah, it also makes the intersection with Nicollet Mall needlessly complicated

[mattaudio]

I think I've done the analysis elsewhere, but hopefully we can close it eventually. If the ramp behind Xcel could shift all access to 4th, and future redevelopment at 5th/Hennepin has access on Hennepin, then the only thing this would be used for is egress from Gaviidae II to Hennepin and 1st.

Now if we were thinking ahead and had unlimited money, we could have put in a tunnel to Nic on 5th and had an access easement.

[MNdible]

Now if we were thinking ahead and had unlimited money, we could have put in a tunnel to Nic on 5th and had an access easement.

Now I'm confused -- I thought under that scenario, we build a bad-ass double decker train tunnel.

[talindsay]

So as I got off the Green Line at Nicollet Mall yesterday I noticed that the construction of the third platform is progressing swiftly, and it got me wondering what they're actually planning to do with it operationally. I couldn't find any docs on the project in a quick Google search. Has anybody seen the operational plans / justifications for the extra platform? Judging by the construction I'd say they're planning on it being a full-fledged station for both boarding and alighting - not just an auxiliary alighting platform.

[Wedgeguy]

This is speculation on my part. But I can see them using the Nic Platform as the drop off for the west bound trains. This would allow for the center platform to be used mainly for the loading portion of the east/south bound trains. This would allow greater capacity on the center platform if they do not have people getting off onto the center platform creating a larger crowd that people would have to fight thru to get to the end of the platform to leave.

[mulad]

I figure they'll just open the doors on both sides and let people do whatever they want. It won't be very useful for boarding until the Southwest or Bottineau lines happen.

A photo from yesterday evening:


IMAG0245 by Mulad, on Flickr

[Andrew_F]

This weekend was the first shutdown that I've had to experience here-- can anyone shed any light on whether this is how Metro Transit has been dealing with rail closures in the past? No matter how you do it, shuttle buses are inconvenient, but having dealt with closures in other cities before, I have to say my experience Saturday afternoon was absolutely the worst I've had personally.

[FISHMANPET]

This weekend was really bad because 35W was also closed, and the detour was Hiawataha Ave, which slowed down all the buses too.

I didn't ride this weekend but I've ridden shutdowns in the past and it got me where I needed to go.

[mattaudio]

Now if we were thinking ahead and had unlimited money, we could have put in a tunnel to Nic on 5th and had an access easement.

Now I'm confused -- I thought under that scenario, we build a bad-ass double decker train tunnel.

Correct. Double-decker train tunnel under 6th, single level LRT tunnel under Nicollet Mall. Streetcars on Nicollet Mall, Washington, Chicago, 10th Street S.

[ECtransplant]

You forgot the Hennepin subway.

[Orbi]

This weekend was the first shutdown that I've had to experience here-- can anyone shed any light on whether this is how Metro Transit has been dealing with rail closures in the past? No matter how you do it, shuttle buses are inconvenient, but having dealt with closures in other cities before, I have to say my experience Saturday afternoon was absolutely the worst I've had personally.

I feel your pain. I've haven't been on it before during a shutdown but I took it to the airport Saturday and it was painful. I am sure Metro Transit was in a tough spot but it seems like there has to be a better way. There was a lane closure on Hiawatha and a lot of traffic so we crept down HIawatha and then had to get off the highway to go to Fort Snelling and VA stops and then went to Terminal 2 only to get back on the LRT to get back to Terminal 1. It seems like at least there should be a way to drop off at Terminal 1.

[Andrew_F]

I would say there are a few things that Metro Transit could learn from agencies that have been operating rail for a lot longer:

--Have two different shuttle routes, one running directly between the endpoints of the closure, and another that makes intermediate stops.

--Have appropriate capacity. The riders from a 2 LRV train should not be expected to transfer onto a single articulated bus.

--Have buses waiting. You're doing a major construction project, you're inconveniencing a lot of people, the least you can do is have a few extra shuttles so it's a no-wait transfer.

--Have appropriate signage. Sandwich boards at station entrances would have been both cheaper and more effective than the hordes of folks they had out trying to provide info to passengers.

Maybe my experience wasn't indicative of how well things were running most of the weekend, but from what I saw, this was extremely poorly planned and executed.

[PhilmerPhil]

I see what you're saying, but how would any of it benefit 9-5 M-F suburban commuters?

[FranklinAveFixation]

The shuttle driver I had going south sat. evening didn't even know the route.. he ended up on the wrong side of Lake st.
The 12-15 of us waiting for this shuttle saw him and ran across Lake St. to get on but he had no way to continue on south from the lane he was in, called his supervisor who must have told him to loop around the block, then he screwed that up and took us on a 8 block joyride.
It was totally pointless because the next southbound bus ended up getting to the stop before he got back.
Several passengers became verbally abusive and he just added fuel to the fire arguing with them in a very harsh tone.
At one point he told some guy to "drive your car next time you want to go to the mall."

He also totally skipped the VA stop and let some woman off on the street where I have never seen them let passengers off.
At the Ft. Snelling station he obviously didn't know where to go when he left there so he picked up his phone again and we waited, fortunately another shuttle passed us and he was able to just follow them.

Of course the driver didn't explain we were skipping Terminal 1 and you would be able to catch a train from Terminal 2.
Saw a few people with luggage get kinda nervous as we sped past Terminal 1, one of them immediately went to ask the bus driver what's going on? Bus driver replied "someone at the next stop will help them."
I talked to some out of towners going to the airport who were laughing about how inept MetroTransit is,they probably wouldn't have been laughing if they weren't over 2 hours early for their flight.

Another thing that bothered me is they just have the same old generic messages on the digital signs above the platform, why not have them specifically say "Terminal 1" or "Southbound/Mall of America" on the appropriate sides?

And we wonder why people are opposed to funding trains/transit.

[mulad]

In past closures, I've typically seen Metro Transit using a bunch of articulated buses for each train. I didn't see what things were like this weekend, but they may have gotten spaced out more than normal because of the 35W traffic on Hiawatha.

The direct shuttle is a good idea, though it would require some good signage and some staff on-hand to help people figure out the right buses to use.

As the previous comment demonstrates, the bus drivers seem to need some better training for this alternate service. Even just driving a car along the route once a month would probably help. It would also be nice to have the alternate routes (not just stop locations) shown at stations and on Metro Transit's wesbite. There are always a few surprises for riders, and they can become belligerent any time the bus deviates from whatever route they have in their heads -- when I took a Green Line bus on opening day before the train started up, it took a strange (but technically correct) route around the capitol, and people were yelling at the driver because it started going north on Rice Street for a short distance.

Having a Metro Transit staff person onboard the bus to assist the driver with both the route and appeasing passengers might be a good idea too.

[HiawathaGuy]

Living a block from the 50th Street platform (one of the 3 platforms closed this weekend for new concrete), I have witnessed my fair share of weekend closures over the past decade. I too think that Metro Transit completely dropped the ball this past weekend. Granted, having a Vikings preseason game Friday night & 35W shut down didn't help matters either. As the game forced them to have multiple versions of closures over the weekend. Which inherently will only lead to confusion.

My suggestion is for anyone who dealt with issues to contact Metro Transit today. While it's still fresh in your memory.
http://www.metrotransit.org/contact-us

A friend of ours took the train to our house Friday night, when trains were running the whole line, but not stopping at 50th, VA or Fort Snelling. This meant anyone wanting to get off at one of those stations needed to exit the train at the 46th Street Station and then take a bus (going southbound). Our friend boarded a bus, which had to wait for 2 full light cycles from passing trains (about 5 min), before the bus could even turn right from 46th to Hiawatha. As the bus driver approached the 50th Street Station, she never stopped. Our friend asked her if she was going to stop - and she informed him he needed to pull the cord to request a stop! Holy Hell Batman! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! How insane is that - so that only leads me to believe that she too was not trained properly. These things all fall on Metro Transit though. Improper signage, improper training, improper planning. The only way they can get better is to hold them accountable. The buses should have been far more available and plentiful. They signage at stations should have been better. The drivers should have been trained.

[FISHMANPET]

Yeah that sounds way worse than in the past.