Nicollet-Central Streetcar

[talindsay]

Berlinerin = A girl from Berlin?

Just noticed there's a Glam Doll doughnuts that opened at 2605 Nicollet. I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong by the auto haters, but in the off chance there's any open thought left, ill pose that;
Removing parking for this type of business would kill it, along with many other businesses that depend on commuters to 'drop' in on their drive to work.

In theory I'd agree with you, but you obviously haven't been to Glam Doll. It's not really a donut shop, it's more a hipster statement about the irony of a previous American society's interest in donuts. Of course, if you're willing to spend $5 on a donut and another $4 on a cup of coffee, they *will* take your money, but if you don't buy it ironically they'll probably make fun of you later.

I wish this city could open at least one good, straight-up donut shop. In the mean time I get my donuts at a Baker's Wife.

[Matt]

Berlinerin = A girl from Berlin?

Just noticed there's a Glam Doll doughnuts that opened at 2605 Nicollet. I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong by the auto haters, but in the off chance there's any open thought left, ill pose that;
Removing parking for this type of business would kill it, along with many other businesses that depend on commuters to 'drop' in on their drive to work.

In theory I'd agree with you, but you obviously haven't been to Glam Doll. It's not really a donut shop, it's more a hipster statement about the irony of a previous American society's interest in donuts. Of course, if you're willing to spend $5 on a donut and another $4 on a cup of coffee, they *will* take your money, but if you don't buy it ironically they'll probably make fun of you later.

I wish this city could open at least one good, straight-up donut shop. In the mean time I get my donuts at a Baker's Wife.

There was one really good donut shop, the Donut Cooperative in Seward, but they closed late last year sadly.

[seanrichardryan]

Since we're on donuts- Sara Jane's on Johnson St. in NE has fantastic donuts. Ditto to Baker's Wife.

[David Greene]

I wish this city could open at least one good, straight-up donut shop. In the mean time I get my donuts at a Baker's Wife.

Umm...Mel-o-Glaze?

I second Sara Jane's too. SJ's Chocolate Dream is out of this world. Mel-o-Glaze tops everything as far as donuts are concered because the dough they make is just fantastic. I haven't tasted any other donut that comes close anywhere I've been. Ever.

[UptownSport]

but you obviously haven't been to Glam Doll.

You're correct sir. Unfortunately, I've been unable to frequent Nicollet. I assume Glam Doll is in the old Black Forest cafe

There's a Mexican Bakery on 28th & Nicollet I think's swell.

I wish this city could open at least one good, straight-up donut shop.

and we're sitting talking trivialities like light rail and streetcars while this tragedy continues.

[RailBaronYarr]

Shameless plug, circling back on my discussion earlier. It's my first post at Streets.MN so go easy on me

https://streets.mn/2013/09/15/lingering ... r-project/

[UptownSport]

Perhaps you could have insisted it be equipped with an anti-car laser as long as you're at it.

Seriously, any more on what vehicles they plan on procuring?
The Skoda with each wheel powered (no common axle; true low floor and no corner screech) would be swell.

[twincitizen]

Questions shall linger no longer: the Transportation & Public Works Committee has unanimously endorsed the AA's recommendation of a starter streetcar line from Lake Street to approximately 4th St. NE (further NE if funding available)

As our Metropolitan Planning Organization, the Met Council still has to amend the regional transportation policy endorsing this option before we can seek federal funding. If the Met Council says no to streetcars (there is a chance, seriously) I'm not sure if Minneapolis can legally seek federal funding without Met Council's blessing.

Honestly, the most important thing we can advocate for now is reducing the number of stops/stations, especially downtown. I'll do it myself if I have to, but I'd love some help. If we're going to spend this much goddamn money, let's at least get some serious travel time improvement out of it.

[MNdible]

It appeared that the end of the line on the north end may also be impacted by where they build the maintenance facility, the implication being that they may have their eye on a site further north than the current proposed terminus.

[seanrichardryan]

A maintenance facility in the Shoreham Yards Area would make perfect sense.

[trkaiser]

It would be amazing to see this line go that far into NE - even if it could just get to Broadway. Do any of you have a sense of how much space a maintenance facility would need?

[MNdible]

I don't, really. Smaller cars, probably not that many of them... there's a site near Spring St. and Harrison that would seem to have some possibility. Not too far north, only one overpass that they need to cross.

[Silophant]

I'm not sure, but I can't imagine there being a good site for one south of 5th st, so I think the line will have to go further north than that. Google Earth shows an open green space in the southwest quadrant of the Broadway-Central raised intersection... maybe it could go there?

[mulad]

Maybe the Superior Plating site could be reused, especially if they're leaning toward using the Hennepin Avenue Bridge. Actually, I wonder if they could tuck something into the rear half-block of that site (and probably the next block northeast too) -- it might be possible to retain developable frontage along 1st Avenue while hiding the maintenance space next to the BNSF tracks.

[lordmoke]

Hey look, renderings:
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/225032382.html

[UptownSport]

That is good news. I *assume* nicollet bus barn housed streetcars in the same area. ★
What stops them from using that facility or adding an annex?

What happened to serving the 46th & 35w bus stop?
Last I heard Kmart was holding out for $. Any mention of this?
Could the store still exist, but smaller?


Streetcars need to have stops so people can get on. I sometimes think people confuse transit with building a model trainset, both are fun to watch but one serves another, primary purpose.





★ assumption only because defunct Snelling streetcar barn later housed buses.

[talindsay]

I agree, the Nicollet bus barn seems a logical place if they can spare some of the bus space. They wouldn't have to give up much. I suppose one challenge is that they'd have to actually get the tracks *ACROSS* Lake Street, and that one additional block would really add a lot of complexity to the project. But then, if the K-mart really will be reduced to one side of a reconnected Nicollet, they'll have that whole (new) intersection all torn up anyway.

They're proposing stopping the line at Lake to contain costs on the initial segment. Expanding it all the way down to 46th would add quite a bit of cost. I think if the initial segment proves successful, it will be an obvious extension to go as far south as 46th. Again, that extension would be easier if they choose to use the Nicollet site for train maintenance, since they'll already have the tracks across Lake Street.

I tend to agree that more stops is better than fewer - better to serve more people - but the renderings show some pretty massive platforms, which would make stops more of a disruption and also more of a cost. If they're choosing to go with light rail-style platforms (clearly what's illustrated) then I think they'll want to space them farther apart. I would prefer that they *not* go with such massive platforms - do a simple raised sidewalk section with a warning strip on the edge like they did in Seattle - and space them more closely. But it does seem to me like they're viewing this more as "light rail in mixed traffic" than as "high-end bus on rails" - probably due to our heavy rail bias as a region. If that's their intention, then I'd suggest spacing the stations a bit farther apart - but still absolutely never more than a half mile.

[lordmoke]

The Nicollet bus garage is a new structure built on the site of the old streetcar barn. So that location used to house streetcars, but never that building.

The two surviving car barns are the Superior Plating building and then the North Barn, which is on 24th and Washington Ave N. That one is a furniture warehouse or something.

[woofner]

Too bad the City hasn't published "Technical Memorandum #X: Operations & Maintenance Facility" - it seems like that would clear up a lot of these questions. The capital cost appendix mentions that they assumed $10.8m for the starter streetcar line's OMF. I think the Central Corridor OMF was about $50m, so they must be assuming a considerably smaller facility (which makes sense I suppose, but also makes you wonder about the future of the streetcar program).

Regarding this rendering:

Pizza Nea is going to be pissed about only having 3' left for their sidewalk cafe. I'll also be pissed that all the pedestrians will be squeezed into a 4-7' space (depending on whether Nea goes for the 3' wide cafe).

[twincitizen]

How would everyone feel about archiving this thread and starting a new one to discuss the actual project. Let's be honest, most of this discussion is irrelevant now. We could start fresh with a clear definition of the proposed streetcar project, now that we know the mode and length. Nick and I discussed this over the weekend, not only for this thread, but for others too where we have 1000+ posts before we're even talking about an actual thing. I would propose the same be done to the Nicollet Mall thread, now that a consultant has been chosen and real planning work will begin. The older posts would not be deleted, but the threads would be locked and moved to a new "Archive" sub-forum.

Thoughts?


And replying to Woofner's post-- Yeah, the idea that we must maintain 3 lanes for cars on Hennepin and 1st Ave NE makes me sick to my stomach. They just had to include that car in front of the streetcar to prove that we're not willing to take any general purpose lanes away.