Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

[Silophant]

Overheard at the meeting: "In their zeal to help bicyclists, they're creating a traffic nightmare!"

(They aren't.)

[Nathan]

Is there anything notably different?

[Nick]

There's a huge TV with a 3D rendering but otherwise no it's pretty much the same thing.

[Silophant]

No major changes from the Option 2 presented in August. They did have a few more details about pedestrian and bike improvements.
The east side of the bottleneck will have a fully separated bike path and sidewalk, with a 2' green boulevard next to the curb, then a 10' bike path, 1' buffer, and 6' sidewalk. The bike path is going to be dark concrete like the Bluff St. trail, not asphalt. I didn't think to ask about level transitions at the street crossings. I did ask about smoothing the connection between the cycletrack and the Loring Park bike paths, and the consultant said that they asked the MPRB about it, based on a whole bunch of comments from the last meeting, and were rebuffed. Sad. If there were any improvements proposed to the sidewalk in front of the Walker, I totally missed them.

I asked about the southbound 4 stop, and was told that it'll now stop at the Groveland 6 stop, then get back over to Lyndale and continue south. I'll believe it when I see it, unless there's a special signal phase to let the bus get across three lanes of traffic in about 150 feet.

[David Greene]

What ended up happening with the Groveland intersection? There were three options originally: A, B, C.

[Silophant]

None of them. It's staying as-is, with the frontage road and RIRO access from Douglas. The roads are narrowed a bit, though, and there's a pedestrian bumpout at the Groveland-Hennepin corner.

[David Greene]

Well that's disappointing.

[mattaudio]

How the heck did that happen? What constituency is there for status quo? The only justifications I can think of would be not enough money, or possibly that the money could be spent elsewhere in this CF with greater return.

[MNdible]

As I'd noted previously, the current situation allows SB Henn/Lyndale traffic to access eastbound Groveland. That apparently wasn't important to you, but it is important to some people.

[mattaudio]

A jughandle configuration for that turning movement that requires going through the intersection twice, with two light cycles, crossing 10 lanes of traffic, is not a very efficient maneuver for left turning in a dense, urbanized neighborhood. Also, access from SB Henn/Lyn can access Groveland via Oak Grove and Clifton, or via Franklin (for Stevens Square section of Groveland).

[MNdible]

I'm not arguing that it's efficient, or ideal. Just that it has a constituency. They don't have a well-organized Coalition like other users of the intersection, so your surprise that they were able to get their voice heard is understandable.

[scottiem]

Throwin' this out there in case it hasn't been said: Move the SB 4 and 6 bus stop from the South end of the jug handle to the NW corner of the Groveland intersection. No significant change for the project, but the 4 wouldn't have to cross the entirety of Hennepin to get on the right street, and have a much greater distance to do it. That is unless the planners intend to remove the 4 from that bus stop, leading people to use the 6 instead?

[MSPtoMKE]

The southbound 4 will no longer stop at Groveland, it will stop at Vineland/Oak Grove only. Even if it was moved to the nearside of the Groveland intersection, it would still have to cross several lanes of traffic to go south on Lyndale. Not ideal, but that stop is currently an abysmal place to wait for the bus, and I don't see what would improve it without major changes to the layout.

[grant1simons2]

Next public meeting for this is June 9th although a portion will be closed to the public. I don't know where and what time yet but it was mentioned at the end of the Transp. Committee agenda

[grant1simons2]

http://www.hennepinlyndaleproject.com/m ... ements.pdf

Detailed layout of the Road/Bike/Ped improvements. Just noticed that Hennepin will have buffered lane for bikes north of Oak Grove. The connection from South/SW Minneapolis to downtown gets even easier with this!

[trigonalmayhem]

I don't understand how you're supposed to make the reverse trip though.

[MNdible]

BIke bridge to the designated bike boulevard on Bryant?

[EOst]

I don't understand how you're supposed to make the reverse trip though.

15th/Oak Grove.

[FISHMANPET]

So question for those that were involved in this process.

How do you guys feel Kimley-Horn did all told with this? Thinking about the whole gamut from public input all the way to the outcome based on fairly limiting constraints, and specifically how they treated non-car concerns in the area.

[grant1simons2]

http://www.hennepinlyndaleproject.com/m ... 3-9-16.pdf

Only half a month away from full construction!