Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

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LRV Op Dude
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby LRV Op Dude » September 11th, 2019, 1:40 am

Blog: Old-Twin Cities Transit New-Twin Cities Transit

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AKA: Bus Driver Dude

mamundsen
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby mamundsen » September 17th, 2019, 7:08 am

I got a letter today about a proposed A.V. Shuttle Pilot Project. The route is 1.5 miles along Linden Ave, Willow Ave and Orchard Ln in WBL just north of 694. The route runs between some senior housing and the ymca. The picture included looks like the A.V. from the super bowl. The route would run on weekdays 10am to 2pm for a 12 month period.

There are community meetings next week. I plan to go and will report back.
Meeting tonight.

Here is the project page.

https://www.whitebearlake.org/ourcommun ... ot-project

MNdible
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby MNdible » September 17th, 2019, 9:09 am

I've been banging on this gong for a while, but using these AV's for collector shuttles that feed or distribute from our mainline transit service on short, predictable routes seems like a match made in heaven. Getting rid of the labor cost of the driver allows these vehicles to be smaller and still economical.

grant1simons2
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby grant1simons2 » September 17th, 2019, 11:57 am

I wholeheartedly agree. I think it's the first big step towards AV. We will need a more robust transit system to make it work though. It will work well in Oslo right now.

karen nelson
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby karen nelson » September 23rd, 2019, 2:08 pm

I've been banging on this gong for a while, but using these AV's for collector shuttles that feed or distribute from our mainline transit service on short, predictable routes seems like a match made in heaven. Getting rid of the labor cost of the driver allows these vehicles to be smaller and still economical.
Thank you!

I've been screaming about this also. The easiest tech to crack has to be a fixed predictable shuttle routes that fill in where buses, LRT doesn't, where you learn the local rules and traffic, can have a few local humans monitoring and helping shuttles and can even do things on the route infrastructure ( signs, light posts) to help AVs in bad weather etc.

How much easier it to figure that out than individual cars going anywhere and everywhere in the world?

And that's the use case that could take off because how super cheap would it be to have 20 mph EV driverless shuttles going back and forth, or in a loop, in fairly dense near train or bus stops.

Super cheap EV shuttles mean they could be super frequent, which is killer app for transit: frequency + proximity = ridership.

Such circulators set up to be great last mile complement to LRT and BRT stations we have at every 0.5 miles - maybe you live 1.5 miles from a LRT or BRT stop - and would take it but 20 minute walk and 0-10 minute at station wait in bad weather just enough to discourage - now a shuttle come to within a block of you every 0-5 minutes, and gets you to station in 5 minutes and is shelter from cold, heat, rain and snow.

mamundsen
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby mamundsen » September 23rd, 2019, 8:53 pm

The last mile was mentioned at the meeting as a future hope for this type of project.

Given the WBL pilot project is just that a “pilot” and serving elderly and disabled, there will always be a co-pilot with the vehicle. Also the Newtrax rep mentioned that they see these as easing the hiring in the future. No need to hire a driver, just an assistant for those that need help. Different skill sets.

Some were upset by the 20mph plan. It’s a 30 mph road. But of course people speed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LakeCharles
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby LakeCharles » October 4th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Good article in the NYTimes about how autonomous vehicles may end up increasing pedestrian fatalities:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... e=Homepage

Multimodal
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby Multimodal » October 4th, 2019, 10:26 pm

I used to think these were the coolest thing, and a great answer.

But the more I learn about land use, transportation, and what we need to do for climate change, I think these will only be used in the very wealthiest areas, where people (1) refuse to bike in the open air, and (2) refuse to allow their neighborhoods to densify.

Of course, those are the very same areas where cul de sacs rule, and where any transportation is extremely inefficient. In which case those very well to do people may well stick to cars.

David Greene
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby David Greene » October 6th, 2019, 6:50 pm

Unfortunately accurate.

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NickP
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby NickP » October 7th, 2019, 1:56 pm

I kind of view electric cars like vaping, in that I view neither as an ultimate solution, but I do see them as steps towards the ultimate goals of using lesser fossil fuels/lowering the over all carbon footprint, and decreasing the number of people who smoke.

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Bob Stinson's Ghost
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby Bob Stinson's Ghost » October 7th, 2019, 5:19 pm

The potential scenarios for electric vehicles span a wide range of possibilities, from a car-to-go type sharing service using BEV Smartfortwo's, all the way up to Suburbans and Tahoes which are even heavier because they are carrying 2000 LB battery packs. The environmental impacts of these two scenarios would be drastically different.

Is there general agreement here that zero cars should be the goal?

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mister.shoes
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby mister.shoes » October 8th, 2019, 8:36 am

Zero cars, period? Or zero individually-owned cars?
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

amiller92
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby amiller92 » October 8th, 2019, 9:06 am

I kind of view electric cars like vaping, in that I view neither as an ultimate solution, but I do see them as steps towards the ultimate goals of using lesser fossil fuels/lowering the over all carbon footprint, and decreasing the number of people who smoke.
Meanwhile, vaping is how the tobacco industry got the number of people addicted to nicotine to grow again and electric vehicles will be the excuse used to ward off changes that might help decrease car dependence, so, yeah...

talindsay
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby talindsay » October 8th, 2019, 9:23 am

Meanwhile, vaping is how the tobacco industry got the number of people addicted to nicotine to grow again and electric vehicles will be the excuse used to ward off changes that might help decrease car dependence, so, yeah...
It's the auto industry's dream future - people still moving in privately owned single-occupancy vehicles that need to be replaced regularly, with the added benefits of greenwashing and more expensive repairs.

NickP
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby NickP » October 9th, 2019, 8:26 am

I kind of view electric cars like vaping, in that I view neither as an ultimate solution, but I do see them as steps towards the ultimate goals of using lesser fossil fuels/lowering the over all carbon footprint, and decreasing the number of people who smoke.
Meanwhile, vaping is how the tobacco industry got the number of people addicted to nicotine to grow again and electric vehicles will be the excuse used to ward off changes that might help decrease car dependence, so, yeah...
As a said, not the end solution by any means. I also admit I’m setting a very low bar when I say “step in the right direction.” lol. In addition, for clarity’s sake, when I said ”smoke,” I specifically meant smoke cigarettes. While nicotine is not great, I remember being taught more about the other unhealthy chemicals in cigarettes, like arsenic, formaldehyde, acetone, etc. Since I wasn’t aware of those being used in vaping, I figured vaping was a slight improvement. It’s definitely a superficial view on my part and I’m sorry if I offended.

talindsay
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby talindsay » November 6th, 2019, 12:51 pm

According to Wired, the NTSB has determined, among other things, that the Uber self-driving cars weren't programmed to detect pedestrians outside crosswalks (!!!):
https://www.wired.com/story/ubers-self- ... ld-jaywalk

Anondson
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby Anondson » October 12th, 2020, 11:00 am

California’s car regulations are election issue in Minnesota because Walz intends to adopt California’s standards for low emission and zero emission vehicles. https://www.minnpost.com/state-governme ... ion-issue/

alexschief
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby alexschief » October 12th, 2020, 12:30 pm

“Those decisions really belong in Minnesota, they don’t belong out in California,” Nelson said in a recent interview.
Except... that's not one of the options. The choices are California's rules or Washington D.C.'s rules. Minnesota gets a say in which they want to follow, and that's about it.

Hard to think about a less sympathetic interest group than the Minnesota Automobile Dealers Association. If they're concerned about the sticker price of new cars, wait until they hear about this group of middleman who provide no little to no value in 2020 but who significantly drive up the cost of a car.

Mdcastle
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby Mdcastle » October 12th, 2020, 1:18 pm

Hard to see why I would want to order a car of Amazon like I would a new HDMI rather than going to a dealership where I can test drive them, but new car sales are not where they make their money. If you ever paid their shop rates or bought a part you know that's where they make their money. The expense that dealers add pales by comparison to what EPA requirements and other government regulations cost.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

Postby VacantLuxuries » October 12th, 2020, 3:27 pm

You can purchase a car however you prefer. Doesn't mean we need to protect people who solely exist to make vehicles more expensive anymore. If they truly provide a value, let's remove their state mandated place between me and the manufacturer and see if they can prove their value without regulatory capture.


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